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Touchless Front & Rear Eyebrow removal

jack954

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bolt first for low ph followed by dual injector simoniz jet clean and high test 2 for highph
 

soonermajic

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No eyebrows at my wash!
Razor 3
Chemquest products
Warm water 110 degree

High ph first - turned up titrating 25-28
Low ph next. - turned up titrating 10-12
this is about 1.5 times what is on the container instructions
Pre soak cost less than $1. Per car

I love chemistry
In any other commercial use of cleaners
Food service - dairy plants etc
High ph alkaline products always go first
Then acid
never understood why car washers were different
Why do you think that is? i know guys who swear Hi ph should be followed by low ph, & not the other way around.
 

SuperShine

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Great info PEI!

What dual injector sizes are you using for your setups? I know with Petit, most use larger injectors, light green is standard so dilutions would have to increase accordingly.

Also for your Compass setup, do you use the low ph salt assault all year round with the booster?

For the highPH, do you have any hazing or blueing of chrome with that strong of a hi-ph?




Reliably removing the eyebrow requires constant attention to 5 details. They are water quality, water temperature, chemistry, impingement, and dwell time. With a touchless you can not just set it up and walk away. You must constantly check to make sure your draws and pressures are staying the same. These are the four setups that I have found solve the chemistry portion of the touchless cleaning equation.

JBS Action Line
1st Pass - AT101 - Brown Tip
2nd Pass - AT102 - Red Tip
2nd Pass - AT150 - Pink Tip
This setup is good with water hardness up to 5 grains and then it falls off fast. Water temperature needs to be as high as you can safely run through your pump. This is a Lo/Hi setup that requires at least 10 seconds of dwell time after each soap pass to fully remove the eyebrow through out all times of the year. You can reduce the dwell time during periods of easier cleaning. This setup is easy on the equipment but can be slow to pass out through the reclaim. This is JBS's most affordable solution but requires more time to work.

JBS COMPASS Line
1st Pass - CPS104 - Brown Tip
1st Pass - CPS105 - Light Blue Tip
2nd Pass - CPS200 - Red Tip
2nd Pass - CPS201 - Brown Tip
This setup is also good with water hardness up to 5 grains of hardness. Water temperature needs to be as high as you can safely run through your pump. This is a Lo/Hi setup that requires at least 5 seconds of dwell time after each soap pass but no more than 10 seconds to fully remove the eyebrow. This is JBS's best solution needing less time and allowing for more control throughout the year. This setup is slightly more aggressive yet still easy on the equipment allowing for limited down time. It is more expensive though.

Auto Lux Line
1st Pass - HP640 - Tan Tip
2nd Pass - AL-10 - Red Tip
2nd Pass - ALTP1200A - Burgundy Tip
This setup requires 0 grains of hardness. Water temperature should be between 119 and 115. This is a Lo/Hi setup that requires 10 seconds of dwell time after each soap pass to full remove the eyebrow. This is the most cost effective solution but it is slow and requires constant attention to the your water quality. This setup is very easy on the equipment allowing for less downtime and works well with reclaim.

CSI Lustra Line
1st Pass - 224 - Turquoise Tip
1st Pass - 515 - Turquoise Tip
2nd Pass - 205 - Turquoise Tip
2nd Pass - 715 - Orange Tip
This setup requires less than 4 grains of hardness. Water temperature should be between 105 and 115. This is a Hi/Lo setup that does not require dwell time after the passes. This setup will require more maintenance to your equipment. It is expensive but fast and leaves the vehicle with a final pH of 6.8 which is ideal for waxes and drying. Unlike most of the other presoaks on the market this one uses a special surfactant that breaks the oil film almost instantly. This requires getting the film moving before the surfactant evaporates and the film resets. If you can afford to run it this is the ideal soap setup for your Petit.

All setups have been tested for multiple years in a southern market with petroleum products being burnt off and creating heavy coatings of oil on the local vehicles.
 

SuperShine

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Ok, I know lots of touchless operators claim to remove the eyebrow but who is REALLY removing it? We’re running Petit’s, Washworlds, PDQ M5’s & 4000’s. Lately we’re doing a bad job on the front eyebrow and even worse on the rear eyebrow of SUVs. We’re running Quest chemicals right now. I just went and washed at a Petit that I know uses Diamond Shine….no bueno. There’s a brand new typhoon up the road from my house, not sure what they’re using but it failed too.

If you’re really killing it, what are you using and how are you applying it?
What type of sealer or protectant are you using with you Petit’s?
I know when I tried ceramic, I was sealing in the eye brows making it harder to remove each time I washed.
Are you starting with a clean slate?

anyone using Vertech vault presoaks?
 

PEI

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Great info PEI!

What dual injector sizes are you using for your setups? I know with Petit, most use larger injectors, light green is standard so dilutions would have to increase accordingly.

Also for your Compass setup, do you use the low ph salt assault all year round with the booster?

For the highPH, do you have any hazing or blueing of chrome with that strong of a hi-ph?
I used .083 injectors for all four setups. I didn't see any hazing and I did run the Salt Assault year round. I also ran the COMPASS setup with CPS101 instead of CPS104 but we had eyebrow issues in late November and December every year, so I switched to CPS104 year round.
 

GoBuckeyes

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What type of sealer or protectant are you using with you Petit’s?
I know when I tried ceramic, I was sealing in the eye brows making it harder to remove each time I washed.
Are you starting with a clean slate?
I am using All Dri as my drying agent, VantaGloss Foamy for my Hot Wax and Starr Sealer as my Ceramic.

It is possible it gets sealed in. After a point, it doesn't matter how many times you wash it, it's not coming off without friction. Once that happens I'll either clean in it in the self serve with a brush or take it through a tunnel.
 

ShinePro

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Why do you think that is? i know guys who swear Hi ph should be followed by low ph, & not the other way around.
Alkaline looses its effectiveness when applied to an acidic environment. On my razor the alkaline gets to sit on the windshield for 30 seconds before low ph pass. In that time it is working on grime and bugs. Then the low ph shocks things back to a neutral environment which allows the rinse pass to move the grime.
plus now you have a more neutral car surface which allows polishes and waxes and or ceramics to adhere to the vehicle surface.

On older units - single lp function-you never hear of someone just using an acid cleaning pass, they use an alkaline cleaner.
self serve is all alkaline cleaners.
why put your alkaline cleaner at a disadvantage putting it on an acidic surface.
I use Select 35 with boost
Then my acid is called Release
All from Cemquest
It works wonderfully for me!
 

ShinePro

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🤦‍♂️
A tunnel is not going to get eyebrows any better than an IBA if their chemistry is not correct!

Getting ready to fly to Vegas in 2 weeks!
All the gadgets, lighted signs, light shows, promo crap that we are going to see.
None of that means crap in this business unless you have your chemistry exactly right, to the best of your machines capability
Consistent clean cars sells more cars to clean!
After years in this business I have found that many of the chemical companies have good stuff. Some really good- some just avg. But their salesmen do not push the limits because they are afraid of costs to the wash owners.
Chemicals are only expensive if they do a half ass job and dont impress anyone.
anyone with a IBA less than 8-10 yrs old that isnt getting eyebrows need to kick their sales rep in the ass or get a new one.
my rant is over
See ya all in Vegas
 

jubalr

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No eyebrows left in my touchless either. High ph of around 13 and let it work for 1:30 while the wash is doing underside, rockers/wheel then a low PH tri foam. Dwell is the key for me, giving it time to work makes all the difference..
 
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Roz

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Alkaline looses its effectiveness when applied to an acidic environment. On my razor the alkaline gets to sit on the windshield for 30 seconds before low ph pass. In that time it is working on grime and bugs. Then the low ph shocks things back to a neutral environment which allows the rinse pass to move the grime.
plus now you have a more neutral car surface which allows polishes and waxes and or ceramics to adhere to the vehicle surface.

On older units - single lp function-you never hear of someone just using an acid cleaning pass, they use an alkaline cleaner.
self serve is all alkaline cleaners.
why put your alkaline cleaner at a disadvantage putting it on an acidic surface.
I use Select 35 with boost
Then my acid is called Release
All from Cemquest
It works wonderfully for me!
We take the same approach with the same ChemQuest chemicals. We always use a stronger ratio than what is on the label, even with our SS chemicals purchased from KR (often significantly stronger). I think manufacturers make the numbers up in part to say their chemical costs are lower than the next guy. Often tests in a lab or a test bay setting are not the same as in real life. Our costs per car washed are higher than if ran by someone else but our customers love our washes.
 

STXCW

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Chemical companies are having issues cleaning road grime and if they tell you otherwise then they are lying. Something has changed in the past couple years that is making it very difficult to clean in a touchfree. Of course, we are not having any issues at our friction sites for obvious reasons.
 

Don B.

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I’ve used Arcadian chemicals, Titanium Low ph, for 21 years in my washworld high velocity. Yes, it’s HF.
But it cleans like crazy! Never had an eyebrow problem.
 

AnalyticWash

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Chemical companies are having issues cleaning road grime and if they tell you otherwise then they are lying. Something has changed in the past couple years that is making it very difficult to clean in a touchfree.
anyone care to guess what has happened?

I have let many companies test chemicals over the years swearing that their "stuff" would take off eyebrow...and every time I have been letdown. Still waiting on a miracle pre-soak...
 

AnalyticWash

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No eyebrows left in my touchless either. High ph of around 13 and let it work for 1:30 while the wash is doing underside, rockers/wheel then a low PH tri foam. Dwell is the key for me, giving it time to work makes all the difference..
PH13 for 1.5 minutes... this is probably overkill. Have you tried less dwell? What brand?
 

jubalr

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PH13 for 1.5 minutes... this is probably overkill. Have you tried less dwell? What brand?
Sure, I started with less dwell like everyone else. Talk to a car wash chemist that said in a car wash environment, the longer the better. That's when I started adding passes to let the pre-soak work. Which only makes sense, and since my machine is capable of doing other passes while its working it was an easy change. There is no downside and eyebrows are gone. In addition, while my machine is set up for high & low PH, there has been no need to adding a low ph pass, saving time and chemical. The pre-soak I have been using for 5 years is from H2o solutions out of Nashville.
 

anthonya

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I’ve used Arcadian chemicals, Titanium Low ph, for 21 years in my washworld high velocity. Yes, it’s HF.
But it cleans like crazy! Never had an eyebrow problem.
which presoaks are you using from arcadian? i’m using the titanium apex for low and T2 for high
 

anthonya

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Alkaline looses its effectiveness when applied to an acidic environment. On my razor the alkaline gets to sit on the windshield for 30 seconds before low ph pass. In that time it is working on grime and bugs. Then the low ph shocks things back to a neutral environment which allows the rinse pass to move the grime.
plus now you have a more neutral car surface which allows polishes and waxes and or ceramics to adhere to the vehicle surface.

On older units - single lp function-you never hear of someone just using an acid cleaning pass, they use an alkaline cleaner.
self serve is all alkaline cleaners.
why put your alkaline cleaner at a disadvantage putting it on an acidic surface.
I use Select 35 with boost
Then my acid is called Release
All from Cemquest
It works wonderfully for me!
We use the low ph first, then the high ph…… Maybe we’re doing it wrong, but interested what everyone else is doing
 

anthonya

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I was using genesis but switched to Titanium Apex. It has a bonded hf, works well.

Which presoak are you applying first.
 
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