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Would stronger presoak help this?

washnshine

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How do I know what is HF? What’s a low PH pass? This is my new presoak. It’s $493.78 for 20 Gal.
View attachment 4421
HF is hydrofluoric acid and is rough on everything Greg said - including cars. Regular use of HF on your cars will dull the paint, trim and etch glass. Stay away from it. It would only be in your low pH solutions since it is acid and the msds will indicate it. Msds - material safety data sheet. Comes with every chemical or is online. Shows ingredients, properties, level of harm, pH, hazards, treatments if inhaled or ingested , etc. good to look these over so you know what you’re using.

Hi pH/alkaline solutions will not have this ingredient but can still have pretty aggressive properties if in high enough concentrations. Like sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.
 
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Greg Pack

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That presoak you posted is picture of an alkaline product and will have very limited effectiveness on windshield eyebrow.

Most machines have two presoak functions where you can use two different products. It sounds like you are only using one product.

If I were you I would enlist the help of a local chemical rep, at least until you gain an understanding of touch free cleaning.
 

traveler17

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Holy crap! How do you explain it to a customer? What’s a general reply you tell them when their vehicle didn’t come clean? Or do you just get your billfold out?
The only thing I explain to the small number of customers that say anything is that a touchless car wash is a maintenance wash. Great at keeping clean cars clean. The majority of people seem to understand the difference between friction and non friction. Only a small percentage will come in w a white car that obviously hasn’t been washed in over a month and expect it to look like it’s been hand washed.
 

Bricks

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HF is hydrofluoric acid and is rough on everything Greg said - including cars. Regular use of HF on your cars will dull the paint, trim and etch glass. Stay away from it. It would only be in your low pH solutions since it is acid and the msds will indicate it. Msds - material safety data sheet. Comes with every chemical or is online. Shows ingredients, properties, level of harm, pH, hazards, treatments if inhaled or ingested , etc. good to look these over so you know what you’re using.

Hi pH/alkaline solutions will not have this ingredient but can still have pretty aggressive properties if in high enough concentrations. Like sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.
Whatever is in the hp soap is corrosive. It burns my eyes to quickly glance in the hole to see if the foot valve is still submerged. Thanks for this!
 

Bricks

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$500 for 20 gallons? Better last for 1000 cars or more!
Yeah no freaking way!! It’s ready to be changed now. I think I took a pic of the counts screen when I started the barrel. I’ll check, but I don’t think I’ve done half that many. I put the new float in the well line to the supply tank so I went back to the yellow tip. I think the well water peels the scum off of cars better.
 

Bricks

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The only thing I explain to the small number of customers that say anything is that a touchless car wash is a maintenance wash. Great at keeping clean cars clean. The majority of people seem to understand the difference between friction and non friction. Only a small percentage will come in w a white car that obviously hasn’t been washed in over a month and expect it to look like it’s been hand washed.
Funny you said that. A friend stopped by Monday morning in a white cobalt he drives to work. Said it’s been a year since he washed it, so I wanted to test wash it. Black film on it. Brown hydrominder tip was in presoak at the time. You could barely tell it was ran through, but that was on county water…man I need more feedback from people. I watch the cameras for results but it’s hard to see. I don’t want the customers to feel uncomfortable by me standing out there watching them. They don’t know I’m the owner and just want to improve things. Thanks
 

Bricks

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That presoak you posted is picture of an alkaline product and will have very limited effectiveness on windshield eyebrow.

Most machines have two presoak functions where you can use two different products. It sounds like you are only using one product.

If I were you I would enlist the help of a local chemical rep, at least until you gain an understanding of touch free cleaning.
Yes only one presoak. So I need more acidic like the corrosive hp soap? Thanks
 

washnshine

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Yes only one presoak. So I need more acidic like the corrosive hp soap? Thanks
Corrosive can be high pH (alkaline) or low pH (acidic). Corrosive only refers to its ability to damage/corrode metals, skin, other materials etc. Chemicals on both ends of the spectrum can have these hazards/dangers.

pH scale runs from 1-14. The lower the more acidic, the higher the more alkaline or basic. 7 is neutral - like water. 6 would be a very mild acid, 1 would be and extremely strong acid. 8 would be a mild alkaline, 14 would be a very strong alkaline. pH alone does not determine cleaning ability, - many other factors involved - like type of acid or alkaline. Vinegar and lemon juice are very low pH (probably 2-3) but won’t cause you problems if you get them on your skin. Sulfuric acid or hydrofluoric acid on your skin will cause major health problems and permanent damage. It is recognized in touchfree cleaning that some types of soils are cleaned better by acids and some by bases. That is why if you are not satisfied with cleaning with a single chemical and it is alkaline, the addition of an acid can help to compensate for the alkaline’s deficiencies. A more mild acid would be a citric acid or d-Limonine, found in many safer car wash products.
 

Bricks

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What is a good low ph presoak to get for a touchless? Say from KR. Something without the HF? Thanks for any help.
 

washnshine

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What is a good low ph presoak to get for a touchless? Say from KR. Something without the HF? Thanks for any help.
I think your best bet might be to pair it with a the high pH presoak you are using from the same company. Certainly not wrong to mix brands, but most manufacturers make a “1,2 punch” type line with both the hi and lo. This is also where a good chem rep can get you pointed in the right direction.
 

fastlx

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I use the KR ( Simonize) Kleen Track 2A as the first pass and use a blue tip, then with Kleen Track 1B second pass ( with blue tip) and also Simonize MC liquid as a booster. The blue tips might be a little big but the cars get clean and no complaints. I also dwell after the soaps for 25-27 seconds and spray them at 130F ( probably 120F ) at the car..My top wash is $14.00 so I think the customers expect a clean car, and I haven't received any complaints. Hope this helps.
 

Bricks

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I think your best bet might be to pair it with a the high pH presoak you are using from the same company. Certainly not wrong to mix brands, but most manufacturers make a “1,2 punch” type line with both the hi and lo. This is also where a good chem rep can get you pointed in the right direction.
So I was thinking this morning that since the high ph - high dollar presoak doesnt do much for eyebrow and people are saying to make up for it with low ph hp soap, that today I’ll choke the presoak down, and jump the corrosive ( I think it is low ph) hp soap up a couple tip sizes.
Also I may slow the speed down on the low pressure rinse to let the soap kind of hang around for a bit until the pump ramps up to 900psi on the next pass. My top wash takes over 7 minutes because I keep slowing speeds down in hopes to better clean cars. I have the undercarriage spray on for 22 seconds and the dryer on for 75 seconds…the dryer timer won’t even register that high.
I told the soap guy yesterday that I might say forget it and turn it into more storage units on that parcel. Thanks
 

Bricks

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Corrosive can be high pH (alkaline) or low pH (acidic). Corrosive only refers to its ability to damage/corrode metals, skin, other materials etc. Chemicals on both ends of the spectrum can have these hazards/dangers.

pH scale runs from 1-14. The lower the more acidic, the higher the more alkaline or basic. 7 is neutral - like water. 6 would be a very mild acid, 1 would be and extremely strong acid. 8 would be a mild alkaline, 14 would be a very strong alkaline. pH alone does not determine cleaning ability, - many other factors involved - like type of acid or alkaline. Vinegar and lemon juice are very low pH (probably 2-3) but won’t cause you problems if you get them on your skin. Sulfuric acid or hydrofluoric acid on your skin will cause major health problems and permanent damage. It is recognized in touchfree cleaning that some types of soils are cleaned better by acids and some by bases. That is why if you are not satisfied with cleaning with a single chemical and it is alkaline, the addition of an acid can help to compensate for the alkaline’s deficiencies. A more mild acid would be a citric acid or d-Limonine, found in many safer car wash products.
Thank you for this! It really helps!! Well put!
 

Back4More

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Is your customer using the orange Rain-X washer fluid? It leaves a very hard to remove film.

Ron
 

Bricks

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Is your customer using the orange Rain-X washer fluid? It leaves a very hard to remove film.

Ron
No, but I recently got the rainX (orange concentrate) working. There was dust on top of the 5gal jug and I realized the foot valve was bad. Is this kind problematic as well?
 

washnshine

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No, but I recently got the rainX (orange concentrate) working. There was dust on top of the 5gal jug and I realized the foot valve was bad. Is this kind problematic as well?
Bricks,

I think Back4More was talking about a type of windshield washer fluid that your customer might be using in their car (washer fluid reservoir). I think you are talking about a product called RainX Complete that you are applying at your wash. And yes - if you apply a product like this over a still dirty car, it can have the effect of sealing soil in and make it harder to clean.
 

Bricks

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Bricks,

I think Back4More was talking about a type of windshield washer fluid that your customer might be using in their car (washer fluid reservoir). I think you are talking about a product called RainX Complete that you are applying at your wash. And yes - if you apply a product like this over a still dirty car, it can have the effect of sealing soil in and make it harder to clean.
What other options do I have for my top wash on a final pass (before SFR) if I remove the rainx?
 
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