Spot Free appears soapy

[JoshsWashes]

When I run my spot free cycle it appears that’s there’s soap coming out of it. Sometimes it’s just a couple seconds and other times it seems to go on for a minute or better. It’s a stand alone line out to the swivel manifold so not sure if it’s really soap or what going on. Anyone else seen this? Thanks

 

[Main Street Carwash]

Maybe the check valve for the spot free is bad letting high pressure soap get pushed back into the line?

 

[copperglobe]

Something you can try. Run wax right before the spot free. Run it for a minute or two. Then run spot free. Does the soap/bubbles show up in the spot free right after the wax? Wax neutralizes the bubble action of the soap. If you don't have bubbles then the lining of the hoses from the manifold on down to the gun are soft/cracked/broken and you've got soap hiding or building up in there. Replace the hoses from the manifold on down to the gun.

If you still have bubbles after running wax right before the spot free then you've go something wrong with the manifold check valves. Did this problem just start or did you just notice it or has it been going on for some time now? Check valves maybe. On that bay you can put a pressure gauge on the spot free pump right after that bay's spot free solenoid valve. Keep an eye on that gauge when someone is using high pressure in that bay (not spot free). If the gauge registers pressure when someone is using high pressure in that bay then you've got a bad check valve on the manifold for the spot free. Depending on the type of solenoid valve you're using on the spot free pump lines determines the amount of backflow you'll get with a bad check valve.

I had the problem exactly as you described. Turned out to be bad hoses with bad/cracked/broken rubber linings that were soaked with soap. I also noticed bubbles during the high pressure rinse as well. I simply replaced all the high pressure hoses in all the bays from the pump stands out to the guns- pain in the neck. That solved the problem. Since then I replace the hoses about every five years or so.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Disconnect the hose leaving the SFR solenoid valve, at the valve. Let any residual water dribble out of the hose. Go run the bay on high pressure. If water comes out of that hose you have a bad check valve. Often, that hose will pop from a bad CV, but some solenoids don't hold as well when the water is flowing backwards and it could just be getting pushed back into your storage tank.

 

[MEP001]

I had the problem exactly as you described. Turned out to be bad hoses with bad/cracked/broken rubber linings that were soaked with soap. I also noticed bubbles during the high pressure rinse as well. I simply replaced all the high pressure hoses in all the bays from the pump stands out to the guns- pain in the neck. That solved the problem. Since then I replace the hoses about every five years or so.

The next time you replace your lines you might want to try a thermoplastic hose. It's more expensive but it doesn't have this problem.

 

[Bethel Car Wash]

I'm having the same problem with my high pressure rinse. It appears to be applying more soap instead of getting clear. I've had check valves in my low pressure systems go bad and it would stop the flow coming into the bay. When a check valve goes bad can it allow the soap to flow backwards into the high pressure hose or does the high pressure cause a vacuum and pull the soap out from a weaker cv? I did replace the hose from the boom to the brush but the other hoses are old and I have had clogged tips from the lining. I guess I should measure these other hoses and start replacing them it sounds like. I just thought if it was soap in the line it would run clear after a few seconds.
Thanks in advance.
Tim

 

[2Biz]

How is soap introduced into the system?

 

[Bethel Car Wash]

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Assuming the picture shows up? The check valve runs back to the soap barrel and the solenoid valve is the fresh water for rinsing. I know the solenoid valve is damaged from a recent freeze up and I will be replacing it anyways. The o ring was blown out the sides and I managed to get it back together but it still lets water weep past into the bay sometimes. Would either of these cause soap to come out when bay 1 is on the hpr cycle? The check valve keeps water from flowing back to the soap barrel if I'm correct? So that wouldn't be it? I really don't understand what keeps the soap from going into the pump at all times anyway? Other than that check valve I don't know what stops it or holds it back?

 

[Bethel Car Wash]

Ok, I haven't used photobucket in years because most sites you can upload photos to now. However this one still doesn't. Photobucket wants $40.00 a month for 3rd party sharing. What are some photo hosting sites that you guys use here? I notice there are not many photos in any of the post. Probably for the same reason?
I'm frustrated!
Sorry for the rant,
Goodnight

 

[MEP001]

Facebook is free, you don't have to "do" Facebook or let anyone on it see you to use it. Just create an album and set it to be viewed by everyone, upload your photo and in Chrome right-click and "Copy image address" to paste here.

I use Imageshack.us which used to be free, there might be a small annual fee now but it's made specifically for hosting images for other sites and forums. They have an app that makes uploading very easy.

 

[2Biz]

I was able to view your image you sent on FB...I copied it and will post it here.......Boy, never seen anything like that before, but simple. Looks like you have city pressure cold water rinse and a solenoid that turns it on/off....The CV to the right goes to the soap barrel, right? So when switched to soap, it only draws from the soap barrel, not mixed in any way? The way it should work is when you select rinse, you have enough city pressure to over power the soap CV and close it. It looks like you have a dema valve there. They are the worst for reliability. For reliability, you need to spend the extra $$$ and get an Asco....If the solenoid has problems or doesn't open or close correctly, the pump will still draw soap because there isn't enough city pressure to close the CV...Does that make sense. What size is the Dema?

 

[2Biz]

BTW, you can load images on the forum by going advance and clicking on attachments to add a photo.

 

[Bethel Car Wash]

Dema solenoid

24v 50-60hz 3/8 I need to replace it anyways. I will check the prices on the other brand. Being new to the car wash business I don't know what brand names are better. I think if I was on this site 2 years ago I would be a lot better off today.
Thanks again guys!
Tim

 

[MEP001]

That Dema is a 474P, pilot-actuated diaphragm valve (1/2", btw). They're MUCH more reliable than the 412P piston solenoids.

 

[2Biz]

I agree, stay away from the piston solenoids...Only use a diaphragm valve. Also check any restriction in the piping when you replace the solenoid...You have to have enough city pressure when switching from soap to rinse for the city pressure to close the check valve. Otherwise it will stay open allowing soap to go to the bays....Without seeing more pics of the whole setup, that's what it looks like to me.

 

[copperglobe]

"I agree, stay away from the piston solenoids...Only use a diaphragm valve"

That right there could save us all a lot of money and headaches.

 

[2Biz]

When I bought my wash, it had a Dema piston on the weep system. The first cold snap I had bays freeze. That was 8 years ago. Randy told me to spend the money and get an Asco 1/2" diaphragm...N.O. valve...I've never had the first issue since changing! In 8 years, I don't know how many cycles a year that solenoid goes through, but I know its a lot! Most of the time below 36°, it cycles 60 times an hour! Up to 1440 times a day....

I don't know what you call some of the small 1/8" solenoids like the Kips, they use a needle and seat to close/open flow. I use them on all LOW Pressure services like soap, wax, TF, FB, SFR, and all air assist functions. Never had one of the Kips fail...8 years...

 

[MEP001]

I put a brand new Dema normally open 412P on the weep, tested it a couple times and left. It froze that night and that brand new valve didn't open.

None of the 412P solenoids on new equipment on a new wash lasted more than a year before they'd either fail to open or stick ope.

 

[Bethel Car Wash]

That Dema is a 474P, pilot-actuated diaphragm valve (1/2", btw). They're MUCH more reliable than the 412P piston solenoids.

Are you saying my solenoid is 1/2" and not 3/8"? And it is ok to order that same one because it is a diaphragm or should I still get the asco as 2biz suggested? Is it normally closed? I haven't had any luck with my plumbing sizes. I know 1/2 and 3/4 pipe but when I ordered new hoses that I thought were 3/8" I found out my hoses were only 1/4" Now my bays have bigger hoses. I just bought bushings to adapt them.
Tim

 

[MEP001]

Are you saying my solenoid is 1/2" and not 3/8"?

Yes, I could tell by the plumbing before 2Biz posted the picture where you can see the 474P on the tag.

And it is ok to order that same one because it is a diaphragm or should I still get the asco as 2biz suggested?

I've had better luck with the Dema than the Asco. The Ascos had the brass seat wash out, the Dema has a stainless seat. Ford vs Chevy.

Is it normally closed?

Yes.

I haven't had any luck with my plumbing sizes. I know 1/2 and 3/4 pipe but when I ordered new hoses that I thought were 3/8" I found out my hoses were only 1/4" Now my bays have bigger hoses. I just bought bushings to adapt them.

Some bolt or plumbing supply houses will give you a cheap plastic tool that has holes and nubs for sizing bolts and plumbing.