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Presoak on triple foam gun

MEP001

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I’ve been thinking of actually running the presoak out of the foam brush.
Follow it with the SOAP FOAM brush cycle, same brush.
That way I believe the customer should get a very clean car.
Almost everyday I have customers asking me what the tri-foam hose is for.
I've considered going to a 12-selection switch and offering the trifoam out of either the foam gun or the foam brush. The reason is that a lot of customers figured out on their own that the trifoam product I use works best if it's applied and then brushed over the car.
 

MANLO

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As a new operator in the Car Wash Industry would yall suggest running pre-soak out of the tri foam gun? If so, what else should I run through it? Just Pre Soak and Tri-foam?
I run presoak, Bugoff and foaming wax through the fun. I have foaming tire brushes....you could run tire cleaner through the gun. Thanks
 

washnshine

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I've considered going to a 12-selection switch and offering the trifoam out of either the foam gun or the foam brush. The reason is that a lot of customers figured out on their own that the trifoam product I use works best if it's applied and then brushed over the car.
MEP001,

When customers brush in your tri foam product are they using that as the soap to clean the car too? Or are they washing the car first and then using that as a brushed in polish?

I guess I am asking if your trifoam works as a cleaner/detergent so that they could start with that function. I think there would be a bit of a learning curve for my customers if they had to wash their car first and then switch over to a trifoam polish from the brush. Yours have obviously figured the process out though.
 

MEP001

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They get the car clean, apply the trifoam, let the time run out or stop the CC count-up, then use it as a brushed in polish. The product says it removes fine particles of dirt embedded into the paint, similar to a clay bar.
 

MEP001

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The label is no help, it just says "foam." I would think any good presoak would work, and if it doesn't create foam like that you could just mix in a foam agent like Witconate AOS.
 

Roz

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Has anyone used a pre-soak in the HP Soap function? We currently use JBS Fonic in the HP Soap. Soap is fine but have been reading about the All Systems Hi-PH Poly Presoak (https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-62116-all-systems-polymer-high-ph-presoak-5-gallon.aspx) and wonder if customers would have a better outcome and experience if we use that product instead of HP soap. I realize that mix is slightly higher (160 vs 240 : 1) but more concerned with a good customer experience. Our Pre-Soak function rarely was used when labeled presoak. Presoak function is used more when we switch to the Desalt product in the winter months.

UPDATE: 30 Gallon cost is similar ($252) so main difference is slightly in the dilution.
 
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MEP001

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My wash has presoak split off to presoak and "Bug Off" functions. Very few use the presoak. My foam brushes get worn out in about six months.

IMO most presoaks are too expensive to use as a bay soap. They either don't clean well or don't produce enough show at a dilution that's cost-effective. I'm operating a Coleman wash and using the same touch-free soap for presoak and high pressure soap - it's a lease, and all the valves that are supposed to reduce the pressure on presoak have been removed, so it's basically the same, I just run the presoak one tip size stronger. I'm using the same soap at two other washes just for bay soap and it does well. It's a mix kit so it's pretty cheap.
 

OurTown

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Has anyone used a pre-soak in the HP Soap function? We currently use JBS Fonic in the HP Soap. Soap is fine but have been reading about the All Systems Hi-PH Poly Presoak (https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-62116-all-systems-polymer-high-ph-presoak-5-gallon.aspx) and wonder if customers would have a better outcome and experience if we use that product instead of HP soap. I realize that mix is slightly higher (160 vs 240 : 1) but more concerned with a good customer experience. Our Pre-Soak function rarely was used when labeled presoak. Presoak function is used more when we switch to the Desalt product in the winter months.

UPDATE: 30 Gallon cost is similar ($252) so main difference is slightly in the dilution.

We use Fonic PH Plus for our HP soap because getting people to use presoak seems to be an uphill battle. It is about 12 ph in the tank and in the bay it is about 8 ph.
 
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Greg Pack

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My wash has presoak split off to presoak and "Bug Off" functions. Very few use the presoak. My foam brushes get worn out in about six months.

IMO most presoaks are too expensive to use as a bay soap. They either don't clean well or don't produce enough show at a dilution that's cost-effective. I'm operating a Coleman wash and using the same touch-free soap for presoak and high pressure soap - it's a lease, and all the valves that are supposed to reduce the pressure on presoak have been removed, so it's basically the same, I just run the presoak one tip size stronger. I'm using the same soap at two other washes just for bay soap and it does well. It's a mix kit so it's pretty cheap.
We use Fonic PH Plus for our HP soap because getting people to use presoak seems to be an uphill battle. It is about 12 ph in the tank and in the bay it is about 8 ph.

The Coleman medium pressure pre soak sucks. The change over time is too long and the water dilutes the product down to nothing that will clean road film. You need a ph of 10 or higher to on the car to get any appreciable cleaning. I just recommended to a friend with a gated Coleman system to re label his bug remover as presoak and discontinue the Medium pressure presoak. The right presoak with enough solvents can serve double duty as a bug remover.

MEP if you still use scotch plaid try some of their extreme as a SS low pressure Presoak at about 75:1. You can also use it as a winter foam brush at 100-120:1 It's actually supposed to be used for HP soap. I loved that stuff when my distributor was local.

One of my concerns in using a FC gun to apply presoak is it would be easy to put too dry a mixture on there and could indeed have some issues with alkaline drying on the car. If your presoak has good alkalinity it needs to go on kinda wet. However, the video posted above doesn't look too dry.
 
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MEP001

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MEP if you still use scotch plaid try some of their extreme as a SS low pressure Presoak at about 75:1. You can also use it as a winter foam brush at 100-120:1 It's actually supposed to be used for HP soap. I loved that stuff when my distributor was local.
I had put a 5 gal Extreme on, but with the low-pressure part of the presoak not working it went through it really fast and it still didn't clean. I put a barrel of their DuoClean in for both high-pressure and presoak and it's lasting and works well. If we keep this lease, I might pull a new line to the bays for low-pressure presoak.
 

2Biz

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Nope, No check valves needed when feeding PS and TF out of a foam gun. With the larger 40-40 tip on the gun, the pressure will take the path of least resistance which is out the gun. Its not the same as running PS on the HP gun. The solenoids are more than adequate to hold back any back-feed pressures. I've had mine plumbed like this for about 5-7 years and have never had an issue. When PS was on the HP wand, that was a different story. The second time the Er got flooded with PS, I looked for a better way!
 

coinman53

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What size tip are you using in your low pressure presoak gun. I agree with 2biz people don't use presoak so much from the high pressure gun. There too impatient to wait they think everything coming out of that gun should be high pressure.
I'm switching to a low pressure gun if all goes well. Any help on tip size would be appreciated
 

2Biz

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I've tried a variety of the larger tips and found a 40-40 works best for me.
 

coinman53

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Thanks 2Biz, I'm going to switch over and if I know how i'll post a video when i'm done. would like to get results like Manlo video. that Russia video seems a little dry.
 

Kolbyskarwash

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I like the way that 2Biz thinks about chemical costs. I haven't looked at it that way, but will in the future.

I use Super Wash pre-soak that is sold by kleen-rite in powder form. https://.www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-6690-kleen-rite-super-wash-50-pound.aspx. 50 lbs costs $73 and makes 55 gallons. Randy suggested this to me and it has worked out very well. It is kind of a pain to mix it up, but I've found that it stays in solution well if you mix it up 55 gallons at a time. Takes about 2 hours to mix it and transfer it to smaller containers. Randy mixes his in smaller batches. I also use 2 ounces of simonize foam additive per gallon. I wait to mix the foam additive in until I put the presoak online for use.

I use one large gravity feed tank for all of my self serve functions with the exception of spot free rinse. The tank feeds flojet pumps that push the water through Dema MixRite chemical proportioners. For presoak I run the floject at 65 PSI and air at 25%. Very similar pressure to 2 biz.

I went to a straight hose on a boom for a while in one bay, but I couldn't get my foaming wax (previously 3x foam) to come out consistently. The curly hoses drive me nuts....always straightening them out after customers tangle them up. BTW - I went to a foaming carnuba wax rather than 3x foam at the suggestion of some forum members. Easily my most expensive chemical, but customers like.....just cringe when I see customers jump to the wax as the first step.

I put together a variation of the winterization system that 2biz built for his wash. Mine is manual, open a ball valve to push air to a bay, then another valve to push some -20 windshield washer fluid, then air. Takes about five minutes and about 1/2 gallon of fluid to blow down my bays. It doesn't get really cold for long periods of time in North Carolina. If it is going to get well below freezing for more than six or eight hours I winterize my low pressure functions and shut down my bays until it gets above freezing. I don't have heated floors, so the mess it makes for the little business I get isn't worth staying open. Last winter was the first that I didn't use no freeze soap or triple foam....thanks 2Biz!
Which flojet model pump are you using? What size lines are you running to the bay?
 

cantbreak80

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I use Viton G57s and 1/4“ LLDPE tubing to above each bay. Then 3/8” from the manifold to the boom.
I use foam generators mounted to the wall above the foam gun boom. They seem to “smooth the flow”.
 
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