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Presoak on triple foam gun

Etowah
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I know there has been a lot of discussion about this but I was curious if anyone was running presoak and triple foam on the same gun. If so, what are your thoughts?
 

2Biz

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Works Great! After dealing with the headaches of having PS on the HP gun, I wouldn't have it set up any other way. It eliminates all CV's associated with PS and works so much better with the larger nozzle...I think I'm running a 40-40 v-jet. No more failed C/V's that causes back feeding issues. There is a big list of "Pro's"...No "Con's" I can think of!
 

OurTown

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I thought 2Biz had it on a gun that is also tire cleaner but not triple foam. Those two chemicals are similar and the changeover time is as important. I would not want to put presoak on a car that was ready for triple foam during the changeover. Also you will need a blow down/antifreeze system if you are in a freeze zone because there is not winter formula presoak like there is for triple foam.
 

2Biz

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Change-over time is faster than having PS on the HP gun because of the larger nozzle on the foam gun. Both PS and TF are Tee'd above the bay. I also purge 2 seconds of air before PS or TF which eliminates Our towns concern.
 

2Biz

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Generally customers use PS first, then FB, then rinse, then use TF. So when they switch to TF, the gun is purged and shooting TF by the time they get to the gun. No issues with this setup.
 

MANLO

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I moved my pre-soak and bugoff to the tripple foam gun at the suggestion of 2Biz. One of the best things that I've done. The customers like it because it is coming out of the gun by the time that the customer picks it up. There is some overlap between the products for me because I have Bugoff and Pre-soak back to back, but the overlap is not enough that it is a problem. A nice benefit of this is that it reduces the number of products that need to clear the HP line when rinsing.
 

OurTown

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That looks pretty good MANLO. It looks like it's putting out a lot so I'm sure your customers like it. Have you figured out how much it cost to run per minute? I'm thinking if using a really good presoak that it would get expensive.
 

2Biz

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Manlo, that looks very close to the volume mine puts out. I used it yesterday on my full size car and it took me about 1 minute to do all the wheels and make it around the car. I run 60psi on the flojet and 30psi air using 1/8" kip manifolds. I also use all Warsaw products, so not the cheapest on the block...

I think you have to look at your chemical costs as a whole, not just what one costs v/s the others or how much one costs per minute. My total chemical costs per year are about 2.5% or less just comparing to bay income. The ultimate goal is customer satisfaction. Something to remember, water quality plays the biggest role in in keeping chemical costs down. The way my bays were originally set up was pumping PS through a 2506 HP nozzle with a flojet. It got little to no use and it made a mess of the pumpstand when a CV allowed backflow!!! I don't have that problem any more!

BTW, I can't take credit for this idea. Cantbreak80 told me about it years ago and it made complete sense. Didn't take me long to implement it! Like Manlo said, it was one of the best changes I ever made.
 

2Biz

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The curly hose is nice for show but I had trouble with it freezing in the winter. The hose length (35ft) was so long, the chemical/foam would flash freeze in the hose before it could get to the gun. If it made it to the gun, the tip would freeze it. This didn't happen until about 15° or lower. Living in Southern Ohio, it can get a lot colder than that and for an extended period of time. So I switched out all the hoses with straight 3/8 Good Year air hose. Lasts for years and is plenty pliable in colder weather. Its even debatable if there is any difference in performance between straight hose and curly....

FYI, I don't weep or use methanol mixtures...I use a blowdown system using air and washer fluid...The tradeoff is well worth it. I used $75 worth of washer fluid last winter for 8 hoses....(4) guns and (4) foam brush hoses...Not a single freezeup....
 

MANLO

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I like the way that 2Biz thinks about chemical costs. I haven't looked at it that way, but will in the future.

I use Super Wash pre-soak that is sold by kleen-rite in powder form. https://.www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-6690-kleen-rite-super-wash-50-pound.aspx. 50 lbs costs $73 and makes 55 gallons. Randy suggested this to me and it has worked out very well. It is kind of a pain to mix it up, but I've found that it stays in solution well if you mix it up 55 gallons at a time. Takes about 2 hours to mix it and transfer it to smaller containers. Randy mixes his in smaller batches. I also use 2 ounces of simonize foam additive per gallon. I wait to mix the foam additive in until I put the presoak online for use.

I use one large gravity feed tank for all of my self serve functions with the exception of spot free rinse. The tank feeds flojet pumps that push the water through Dema MixRite chemical proportioners. For presoak I run the floject at 65 PSI and air at 25%. Very similar pressure to 2 biz.

I went to a straight hose on a boom for a while in one bay, but I couldn't get my foaming wax (previously 3x foam) to come out consistently. The curly hoses drive me nuts....always straightening them out after customers tangle them up. BTW - I went to a foaming carnuba wax rather than 3x foam at the suggestion of some forum members. Easily my most expensive chemical, but customers like.....just cringe when I see customers jump to the wax as the first step.

I put together a variation of the winterization system that 2biz built for his wash. Mine is manual, open a ball valve to push air to a bay, then another valve to push some -20 windshield washer fluid, then air. Takes about five minutes and about 1/2 gallon of fluid to blow down my bays. It doesn't get really cold for long periods of time in North Carolina. If it is going to get well below freezing for more than six or eight hours I winterize my low pressure functions and shut down my bays until it gets above freezing. I don't have heated floors, so the mess it makes for the little business I get isn't worth staying open. Last winter was the first that I didn't use no freeze soap or triple foam....thanks 2Biz!
 

2Biz

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Believe it or not, I've had customers wash when it was 5 below zero with open bays! And the automated winterizing system still works flawlessly! Thanks for reminding me the other reason I don't like curly hoses! Always having to untangle them.

Your welcome Manlo! I'm glad someone implimented one of my suggestions and enjoying the benefits!
 
Etowah

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I'm about to start a low-pressure system refurb, and I'm contemplating talking to him about running presoka through the foam gun. He wants something that works really well with lots of volume and likes the thought of offering it as a loss-leader type thing, but he doesn't want to have to educate his customers.
 

washnshine

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I think presoak on a separate gun is a great idea. Presoak tends to be misunderstood - some people see it as just a weak pressure detergent and switch right over to hp soap because they think that is what cleans since it is under pressure. Seeing it come out of its own applicator seems like it would set it apart in the eyes of the customer.

Most customers don’t realize that you can actually simulate a touch free wash with presoak (if you have a good chemical).
 

JMMUSTANG

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I’ve been thinking of actually running the presoak out of the foam brush.
Follow it with the SOAP FOAM brush cycle, same brush.
That way I believe the customer should get a very clean car.
Almost everyday I have customers asking me what the tri-foam hose is for.
 
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SearcyCarWash

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As a new operator in the Car Wash Industry would yall suggest running pre-soak out of the tri foam gun? If so, what else should I run through it? Just Pre Soak and Tri-foam?
 
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