New Petit install & having HELL!! Need some help

[eckert16]

One potential solution: physically Measure the voltage and type of voltage (AC/DC) at the inhibit relay electromagnet (24vdc or 110VAC); measure the inhibit signal voltage sent from the carwash controller to the ACW; remove the problematic inhibit relay, and replace the inhibit relay with a brand new relay matching the measured specs.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Swapping in a brand new Inhibit relay is certainly a good idea. I've had plenty of relays where the internal solder joints come loose and become intermittent. Also, back when I was chasing my tail years ago on this issue, lots of people suggested swapping or replacing the relay pan in the ACW. Just like the actual relays, the sockets in the pan are all soldered and could very well have a bad/intermittent connection. Just an option.

 

[tylerwash]

What is the voltage of the CI signal on the Petit? Did your distributor change the CI relay? Do you have the correct voltage relay in the CI position? Watch your CI relay when a car leaves the bay to make sure the CI signal is actually coming back to the ACW. What is the vend duration in the controller?

Hi Randy, it’s 120V. My distributor didn’t change the CI relay. For the vend duration I believe it’s 2S. The things is it when we tried to check the CI relay, everything seemed fine…

 

[tylerwash]

Hold on a minute. Something else is wrong or something is not wired properly. The ACW4 is pretty simply. It is only capable of stacking and holding one wash. How are multiple people losing money? There are basically three states the ACW has:

1) Waiting to take payment. When it does it will send the wash to the Petit.

2) Waiting to take payment and waiting on a CI input for the last wash it sent to the Petit so it knows the wash is ready. In this case, the ACW will hold the paid wash and display "please wait, car wash in use" indefinitely until the CI signal is received. Once it is received, it will release the wash to the Petit. The ACW will not take anymore payments in this state, the coin mechs and validator are disabled.

3) The last state is where the ACW CI signal is constantly on. At first the display will say "Car Wash Busy", then after 10 minutes the display will change to "Car Wash Closed". Obviously in this state, the ACW will not take any payments.

(This is using the CI circuit in 'Passive' mode meaning the normal state of the relay is deenergized. To signal the input the relay has to have power applied. If you were using it in 'Active' mode the relay is energized all the time and to send the input signal, the power to the relay has to be dropped out.)


Only one person should be able to lose money...the person that is left sitting there indefinitely waiting for their wash. If they end up driving away and someone else pulls up the ACW won't accept any payment.

I couldn't figure out why multiple people had lost money...We got crytopay and Everwash router hooked up to the ACW. I understand your point on #2, in the past it would stop taking any form of payments if the "car wash in use " message popped up.

When this happened one night after hours it charged several cards without giving a wash. The next morning, some of these customers left us voicemails alerting us the problem and the charges. When we checked the ACW display, the "car wash in use" message was there and the Crytopay transactions confirmed the charges.

I believe our distributor set the ACW on passive mode.

My distributor also told me when the ACW got installed 10+ years ago, the wrong wire gauge of wires was used - they're speaker size wires! He'll try to use a timer delay to see if he can get this resolved soon. Will keep you guys posted.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It's been a while since I wired cryptopay into an ACW4 so I don't remember what wires are tied into what. I will tell you that the swiper should be disabled once that second wash is paid for and stacked.

You should test a couple of things....

Flip your passive/active toggle switch to active, which should throw your ACW into 'Car wash busy' and to "car wash closed" 10 minutes later. Try swiping a card and choosing a wash, You shouldn't be able to.

Put your switch back to Passive. Pay for a wash, then pay for another. Your ACW should say "car wash in use, please wait'. Now try to swipe a card and choose a wash, you shouldn't be able to.

If you can, then your Cryptopay isn't programmed correctly. There is a sequence you must follow regarding the welcome prompt and proceed prompt.

 

[tylerwash]

One potential solution: physically Measure the voltage and type of voltage (AC/DC) at the inhibit relay electromagnet (24vdc or 110VAC); measure the inhibit signal voltage sent from the carwash controller to the ACW; remove the problematic inhibit relay, and replace the inhibit relay with a brand new relay matching the measured specs.

Thank you for chipping in. My distributor already measured the inhibit signal voltage sent from the carwash controller to the ACW. It looks like the inhibit relay meet the specs. We'll be changing it anyway to see if it will make a difference.

 

[Randy]

The question is, when does the Petit send voltage to the Hamilton to reset it? if it sends voltage when the equipment is idle, then that is active.

If it sends voltage only at the end of the wash, then that is passive.

The best way to work with an old ACW is in passive. Send voltage for 2-5 seconds to the CI circuit when you want the ACW to release the wash it has queued. When that 2-5 second voltage drops, the acw fires the next wash.

I’m not sure what voltage Petit sends though. I contacted a Petit distributor I know, and they told me it was 24 volts AC, I don’t think they know what it should be. If you have a 120 volt relay installed and it should be 24 volts AC it wouldn’t work at all. What voltage did your distributor get on the CI relay input when he checked it, saying the “inhibit relay meet the specs” isn’t telling anyone much, what was the voltage? I would probably change out that CI relay to match what they have installed now.

When you get an error on the ACW the ACW shouldn’t take anymore money and the Cryptopay system should also stop taking credit cards.

The speaker wire that goes out to the ACW is a bit concerning. Why didn’t your distributor replace the wires?

 

[tylerwash]

It's been a while since I wired cryptopay into an ACW4 so I don't remember what wires are tied into what. I will tell you that the swiper should be disabled once that second wash is paid for and stacked.

You should test a couple of things....

Flip your passive/active toggle switch to active, which should throw your ACW into 'Car wash busy' and to "car wash closed" 10 minutes later. Try swiping a card and choosing a wash, You shouldn't be able to.

Put your switch back to Passive. Pay for a wash, then pay for another. Your ACW should say "car wash in use, please wait'. Now try to swipe a card and choose a wash, you shouldn't be able to.

If you can, then your Cryptopay isn't programmed correctly. There is a sequence you must follow regarding the welcome prompt and proceed prompt.

Hi Randy, I suspect the Everwash router is the culprit...

We switched from active to passive for the two ACW - same thing happened randomly every couple of days.

We talked with Hamilton and Petit again without a resolution. My understanding of the stacking is the ACW may charge the first customer but not the next one if the car wash in use message came up.

Today when the car wash in use error came up, I got no attendant on site. It continued charging several customers' cards without giving a wash.

When we found this out, we unplugged the Everwash router and reset the ACW. It appeared the car wash in use error got cleared right away and we're able to open the bay.

I don't think there is any problem with the Cryptopay. We've been using the same wiring. And when this happened in the past with our old D&S, the ACW stopped accepting payment. I'm going to check with Everwash to see if they can send me two new routers or find a workaround. Thanks

 

[Randy]

When you say the ACW continues to take the customers money when the error “Car wash busy please wait” is on the display, is it still taking currency and credit or both? The ACW should shut down accepting anything when that error pops up. What kind of bill validator are you using? Where does the Everwash equipment connect into the ACW?