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Futura Fail

Bigmatthew86

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So I’ve been slowly rehabbing the old Futura SSA that was the wash I bought since May. I know replace it, that’s the plan at some point. So far it got a wheel kit, new high pressure & pre soak nozzles, & the acw4 got a facelift & cryptopay. I have only been testing the wash with the no car function until today. Today I thought I was at the point to really test it out. Well I swiped & it verified & then did absolutely nothing. Twice actually, charges are on my card but not washy. I will try to troubleshoot it some more tomorrow but does anyone have any tips for me or what to look for?
 

Bricks

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So I’ve been slowly rehabbing the old Futura SSA that was the wash I bought since May. I know replace it, that’s the plan at some point. So far it got a wheel kit, new high pressure & pre soak nozzles, & the acw4 got a facelift & cryptopay. I have only been testing the wash with the no car function until today. Today I thought I was at the point to really test it out. Well I swiped & it verified & then did absolutely nothing. Twice actually, charges are on my card but not washy. I will try to troubleshoot it some more tomorrow but does anyone have any tips for me or what to look for?
Did the enter light come on? If so, did you drive up to the first eye? I just wanted to be sure what you meant by “absolutely nothing”. You should turn the power off to the pLC/HMI for ten seconds and back on then login as service. Then go out to the acw and turn it off for ten seconds and then back on…try at your own risk. That’s what I occasionally have to do to mine.
 

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First you need to see if your Futura is getting a INPUT signal on the PLC for a vend from the pay station once money is accepted. If it is then theres a issue with the Futura and you can start looking into it. If not, your pay station is not communicating properly with the Futura. You can start wth that by checking if your on the proper type of signal. Active or passive signal.
 

Bigmatthew86

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This is my 1st attempt at this so how one go about that? When I swiped my card I got nothing, no entry light or anything. I only had about 30 minutes so I didn’t mess with it too much.
 

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It been a long time since I've seen the panel on one. I believe the input and output cards on the inside of the panel have lights on them that turn on when a input/output is activated. If they do, you need to find the worksheet that explains what each input and output is used for. Look for VEND/WASH INPUTS. Then check if one of those lights comes on when you pay at the cashier.

If there is no lights at all on your cards then you will need a electrical meter to test for voltage on the cards for the vend inputs.

Are you able to run a car without using the pay station?

Have you tried paying cash for a wash and seeing what happens?

Did you solder the jumper on the ACW controller when you did the upgrade kit?

Theres a switch on the back of the ACW that you can flip from active or passive. Look in your owners manual and see what it should be set to.

It sounds like your not getting the signal to your machine from the paystaion.
 
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Bigmatthew86

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I did solder the jumper wire. I wasn’t able to pay & see what it did inside because I was alone. I tried to run “test with car” & the entry light did light up. I wasn’t sure exactly what I was doing so I will try that again today.
 

eckert16

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Post a pict of UniOp label from the back, version and firmware number. Someone may have a matching machine.

You obviosly need to get your PLC communicating with your UniOp, and we always assume you have the correct cable connecting the PLC to the UniOp (it is a custom made non-standard connection cable going from the UniOp to the GE90-30).
-also assume you already went into config mode on the UniOp to check your settings.

The attachments are pdf created from a certain version of the HMI. It is helpful to print out, as it makes it easier to locate the function you want on the UniOp. (Page # is a screen on the UniOp...and the passwords are only descriptive)
 

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Bigmatthew86

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I haven’t changed anything. The machine was there as well as the pay station. I just added the cryptopay & hoped it would work. Unfortunately it did not. You are also speaking Greek to me lol. I’m mechanically inclined but computers & wiring are not my strong point.
 

eckert16

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1666397774114.png
The incorrect cable will cause that exact error....along with other things.

Recommend you take the pages I sent, print them out and use them as you scroll thru the UniOp settings, write down your current settings directly on the paper (modify the pages to fit your version). So you have a record of your settings.

That first PLC module with the two black connectors coming out, the top row A12345678
I believe one of the first four should momentarily 'trigger' or light up when the ACW sends a 'wash signal'
A1 Wash Option 1
A2 Wash Option 2
A3 Wash Option 3
A4 Wash Option 4
 

Bigmatthew86

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Ok, I’ll print them at work tomorrow. What cable do I need? That’s the cable that was in there & it worked before.
 

eckert16

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You should be good on the cable then...'if it worked before'. Follow Bricks advice, mount your phone to record the PLC lights as you trigger the ACW to send a wash signal (ensures that part of the system is functioning).
I don't recall which PLC inputs/outputs are to be On/Off as the default status, and it varies with the PLC/HMI versions. For example, both of these are Futura PLCs:
1666403451616.png
1666403362305.png
I don't recall if either of these were functioning, or prior to repair.

You should have wiring diagrams, wiring schematics, and drawing nearby (if not on the back of the control panel door).
I see you have an extra plc/hmi cable, and an extra hmi. It looks like you swapped out the HMI....do both the mounted HMI and the HMI laying in the box have the same version of Futura software? ... maybe consider putting the old HMI back in, and printing out a copy of the papers for it, and recording those settings as well. You might find a difference.
 

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Bigmatthew86

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I personally haven’t done anything to it. The extra parts were already in there. I’m not sure at what point the previous owner changed them. The wash hasn’t run in a few years. This was the setup from when it ran last.
 

Bigmatthew86

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Ok I printed all the pages you sent. Excuse my ignorance but what do I need to do next? I need to swipe my card & see if the input lights up? Try another cord? Try the other uniop? Just trying to wrap my mind around what I need to try?
 

eckert16

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Verify carriage is at its home position.

Verify your acw sends a signal to the plc (one of the relays in your acw will activate),
Verify the plc receives the signal at either a1 a2 a3 or a4 (depending on wash selected) which will momentarily light.
-if good, then your plc to acw connections should be fine.


- review your manual for default input and output settings on plc. Compare to what you have. Is a pressure input activated because its too low/high? troubleshoot each issue. Is a level switch activated which should not be? Troubleshoot.

Then you are back to hmi connections, and settings. Resolve the communications error. The wash will not function with a comms error, as the plc will not know what settings to use... because it gets them from the hmi.
Your manual shoukd have a list if items that result in a communications error. Go thru the possibilities.

Record your current hmi settings.
Verify settings as annotated with your futura manual, and your installed equipment (acw, doors, dryers, wash settings etc).
Drop the other hmi into the system, and do the same.

(Check nearby locations for other futura operators... they are a great resource)

TriValley equipment (in Saint Clairsville Ohio ) maintain the expertise in futuras from what I understand
 

Bigmatthew86

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I appreciate the info. What would be the right cable to get if that’s the issue?
 

eckert16

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Apologize, I don't recall the exact name of the cable... CA05, CA10, CA20 something like that. It was custom made per the GE/UniOp specification. And the company created the cable with incorrect resistors (99 ohm instead of the 1k ohm), and the incorrect resistance also caused Communications Failure. Measure the resistance between the pins on your cable to find out if your cable is correct. (you'll have to research UniOp and GE90-30 cable connector - pin out drawing).
 

Bigmatthew86

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So I came up this morning & tried both cables I have & it didn’t make a difference. I also recorded purchasing a wash & nothing lit up inside.
 

eckert16

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I'd recommend looking at your UnIop settings. Do the labels on the back match version/firmware. Is the same software loaded on both? Are the wash settings complete? I don't know...you've not confirmed nor denied any of your HMI settings?

By complete: if/when you switched the UniOp, it is possible the carwash settings were not retained in the HMI (because of a dead battery / power outage), and you will have to go thru the UniOp and re enter the settings after battery changed/ power is connected....hence...the reason I suggest you print those papers and write down the current settings so you know what you are starting with. There is the possibility that your current UniOp (which appears to have a good battery) it is possible it doesn't have the carwash settings and the other UniOp may or may not have the settings as well.

Your current UniOp photo looks like the batter is ok (low battery light not lit). I don't know the history, was the currently installed UniOp replaced with power so the settings were retained?).
Be aware: the UniOp can only go for a short time disconnected without a charged battery before the settings erase. When you change a battery in the UniOp, (if it looses all power for a certain time it will erase the settings), Try to kept power applied to it to prevent data erasure while changing the battery (if/when needed)..
 
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Bigmatthew86

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Ok so the spare uniop seems to never have been installed, it still has the protective film from the factory on it. I tried to use cash today & it lit up lights on the panel like you said but didn’t light up the exterior enter light or the light in the panel inside the wash. I entered & stood on the treadle but that didn’t make anything happen. When using the cryptopay it did nothing at all.
 
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