Damn liar customer

[Axxlrod]

About two months ago, a older man in a BMW 3 series comes to my express wash on a Friday. He asks my employee to "turn off the brushes because his front bumper is loose". He's already on the conveyor at this point, and there is a line into the street. So my employee obliges and turns off the wraps for his car (we only have 1 set of wraps). Well his bumper comes under under the blower and gets lodged underneath his car. He drives to a vac stall and then calls a tow truck to remove the bumper. He throws a fit, so my employee has him fill out a damage info sheet.

I call him the following monday to discuss this situation with him. He admits that his bumper was loose, and that the employee did indeed turn off the equip, but he says its still my fault and wants me to buy him a new bumper. I refuse. His insurance co calls me, and of course, the man did not tell his ins co that he admitted his bumper was loose and asked for the equip to be turned off. After telling the ins agent all the details, he agrees that I'm not at fault, and says he is closing the claim and I won't be hearing from them again.

Well, 2 days ago, I get a letter from the ins co demanding full payment for the repair cost ($1500). The notes state that the customer requested the brushes to be turned off, but car wash did not comply, and brushes ripped off bumper. No mention of him admitting the bumper was loose.

What an absolute liar. Now I have to spend time dealing with this. Angers me how people always try to blame someone else for their mistakes.

 

[pitzerwm]

We might as well all understand that expecially in this day and age, that it is always someone elses fault. We need cameras, we need a tape recorder when talking to anyone. Yes, its a pain, but if you have an issue, you will pay for it one way or another. Ignoring it and assuming God will protect the innocent is a foolish way to go IMO.

In this case there is no way that the insurance com. will go to court over $1500. In my recent wreck, her insurance company said "since its under $2K, this isn't any argument" Of course, we haven't setled the "dimished value" issuse yet, but I'm sure that we will. I am willing to go to court for less than $2K because, I can do it myself. Another benefit of all those small claim, divorce, and other court visits. Even when I lost, I won, because of the knowledge I picked up.

If you haven't already began to do it, save a copy of every legal document that you see or come across. Someday they will come in handy.

 

[Axxlrod]

I do have cameras. In fact, after I heard about the incident, I went and reviewed the video to make sure that my employee did in fact turn off the wraps. He did.

Since the ins co claim manager told me he was closing the claim, and they wouldn't be pursuing it at all, I didn't save a copy of the evidence. My DVR holds about 3 weeks of video, and this happened 2 months ago.

Live and learn.

 

[Red Baron]

I do have cameras. In fact, after I heard about the incident, I went and reviewed the video to make sure that my employee did in fact turn off the wraps. He did.

Since the ins co claims manager told me he was closing the claim, and they wouldn't be pursuing it at all, I didn't save a copy of the evidence. My DVR holds about 3 weeks of video, and this happened 2 months ago.

Live and learn.

If you're in a state that allows it, get a cheap phone recorder from Radio Shack. Call the claims manager and use language that doesn't sound like you're trapping him, but just curious why he changed his mind after he told you he was closing the case. Ask a couple of other questions first to get him comfy and off guard, then ask him why he changed his mind about closing the case. Then, about a week later send him a partial transcript of his recorded call, detailing only the part about his agreeing to close the case. Then make the point to him that your defense in court will be that you did not save the video evidence because the claims mgr told you he wasn't pursuing it.

Here's the powerful part though. The claims mgr will begin to wonder what else he might have said during your recorded conversation. His mind will likely conjure up all sorts of things he might have said that he doesn't want to hear again in court.

Some states allow recording a phone conversation without telling the other party and some don't. If your state doesn't, try a similar version via e-mail, but it's less effective.

Surviving 29 years in the roofing business requires some strategy. lol

 

[MEP001]

Off the topic of damage claims, but last night I dealt with a liar "customer." Guy pulls a large flat-bed trailer, with an inch of sand on it, into a bay. I told him before he started that I "can't let you wash that off here." He says "I'm not, I'm just gonna wash the wheels off." Yeah, right, I told him I didn't believe him. After a few more words he left, and I waited a bit and headed down the road he took. Sure enough, there he was at the nearest wash blasting sand all over the bay and the vacuum area.

 

[Red Baron]

Guys calls me last night to say he put a $5 in the changer and it only gave him 4 quarters. Told him I'd meet him today to get him his other $4, but went directly to the wash to check the changer. Sure enough, I had to go about 20 bills deep to find a $5. So the tatt'd up loser walks into my ER this morning and says he's the guys that called. Before I even finished my sentence to say there wasn't a $5 in the changer, he could tell the gig was up and interupted with "I think it was only a $1."

Lots of losers out there.

 

[Dirt]

I thought someone said that guy moved from PA to TX.

 

[termn8tr]

About two months ago, a older man in a BMW 3 series comes to my express wash on a Friday. He asks my employee to "turn off the brushes because his front bumper is loose". He's already on the conveyor at this point, and there is a line into the street. So my employee obliges and turns off the wraps for his car (we only have 1 set of wraps). Well his bumper comes under under the blower and gets lodged underneath his car. He drives to a vac stall and then calls a tow truck to remove the bumper. He throws a fit, so my employee has him fill out a damage info sheet.

I call him the following monday to discuss this situation with him. He admits that his bumper was loose, and that the employee did indeed turn off the equip, but he says its still my fault and wants me to buy him a new bumper. I refuse. His insurance co calls me, and of course, the man did not tell his ins co that he admitted his bumper was loose and asked for the equip to be turned off. After telling the ins agent all the details, he agrees that I'm not at fault, and says he is closing the claim and I won't be hearing from them again.

Well, 2 days ago, I get a letter from the ins co demanding full payment for the repair cost ($1500). The notes state that the customer requested the brushes to be turned off, but car wash did not comply, and brushes ripped off bumper. No mention of him admitting the bumper was loose.

What an absolute liar. Now I have to spend time dealing with this. Angers me how people always try to blame someone else for their mistakes.

Do you not have any disclaimer signs posted. 15 yrs ago our lawyer told us to post signs as follows " We are not responsible for antennas, mirrors, wipers, add on equipment, or any other damages none, whatsoever. Enter at your own risk." We have Never had any issues at either location. Laws must be different in USA than in Canada.
This has had no toll on our business at all.

 

[JustClean]

Guys calls me last night to say he put a $5 in the changer and it only gave him 4 quarters. Told him I'd meet him today to get him his other $4, but went directly to the wash to check the changer. Sure enough, I had to go about 20 bills deep to find a $5. So the tatt'd up loser walks into my ER this morning and says he's the guys that called. Before I even finished my sentence to say there wasn't a $5 in the changer, he could tell the gig was up and interupted with "I think it was only a $1."

Lots of losers out there.

Same thing happened to me yesterday. I saw a guy putting a note in the change machine and get some change out. He then comes to me and complains he didn't get enough coins. I checked the last bill in the note stacker asked him what note it was. He looked in his wallet and discovered that he must have put the wrong note into the machine because the one he thought was still in his wallet. He actually looked very honest and apologized many times....

 

[Axxlrod]

Do you not have any disclaimer signs posted. 15 yrs ago our lawyer told us to post signs as follows " We are not responsible for antennas, mirrors, wipers, add on equipment, or any other damages none, whatsoever. Enter at your own risk." We have Never had any issues at either location. Laws must be different in USA than in Canada.
This has had no toll on our business at all.

Yes, I do have a disclaimer sign right at the beginning of the tunnel on the driver's side. Customers look right at it when they drive onto the conveyor. It says "not responsible for antennas, wipers, mirrors, bug shields, aftermarket modifications, previously damaged parts or loose trim or molding".

In my mind, we are covered. But that won't stop the ins co from coming after me.

 

[Earl Weiss]

In this case there is no way that the insurance com. will go to court over $1500. .

have to disagree. Her ein Chicago, the Big Guys, State farm, Alllstate etc. Do the subrogation claims by the hundreds. It's just another one to throw in the hopper. been involved in more than one.

On a seperate note had a judge stick it to me on the infamous Taurus bumper issue, saying the ICA bulletin aabout the issue was not sufficient evidence.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you're in a state that allows it, get a cheap phone recorder from Radio Shack.
Some states allow recording a phone conversation without telling the other party and some don't. If your state doesn't, try a similar version via e-mail, but it's less effective.

Surviving 29 years in the roofing business requires some strategy. lol

Pretty sure you've confused a few thing. Tape recordinga conversation on the phone without telling the person (or a court order allowing it) violates Federal electronic eavesdropping laws. In person communications can usualy be recorded if one party consents.

 

[Chiefs]

On Feb. 8th on what turned out to be a 902 car day instead of an 1,100 car day, a woman who's been through before and knows the routine decides put her foot on the brake and jumps 4 rollers, in the process, the wheel turned and pushed her off the track 18" away from a sign that has both words and pictures and says "Having a problem going thru wash... Honk Horn for attendant. Does she do this, of course not! Instead she turns a ride thru car wash into a drive thru car wash and runs directly into my 3 rinse arches nearly knocking them over. She the puts it in revers and treis to drive forward 2 more times again hitting the rinse arches, finally, second time she backed up she hit the car behind her who fianlly honked the horn. We stopped the line, got her back on the track but it took another 95 minutes to repair the damage and open up again, costing us 157 cars (est. $1,350 in revenue) and another $1,000 in damage to the arches. I showher the video and of course she swears she didn't do anything wrong (or right for that matter) and wants her car reapired $1,900. I declined her kind offer and told her no. Her insurance company is now trying to come after me for the damages claiming the our equipment caused the damage. Though laughable as the video shows, I have turned around and sued the customer in small claims court for $2,356 to protect myself from the lawsuit I expect the insurance company to file. We go to court June 24th. I'll let you know the results. her insurance company wants me to turn the claim in to my insurance company, I told them when pigs fly since there was no equipment malfunction rather brain malfunction of their client.

 

[Red Baron]

Pretty sure you've confused a few thing. Tape recordinga conversation on the phone without telling the person (or a court order allowing it) violates Federal electronic eavesdropping laws. In person communications can usualy be recorded if one party consents.

Happens all the time. An insurance company wrote our roofing company a $425,000 check because of such a recording. There's a lot of nuance that doesn't meet the eye. The recording cannot usually be introduced as normal evidence, but can often be used to impeach ther testamony of the other party, which is what we did.

Disclaimer: We don't record phone calls as a normal course of business. We will record a phone call when the other party has already lied to us, or conveniently forgotten past conversations when money is involved.

The following from some legal sites:

http://www.thelaw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-592.html

Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as “one-party consent” statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)

Twelve states require, under most circumstances, the consent of all parties to a conversation. Those jurisdictions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. Be aware that you will sometimes hear these referred to inaccurately as “two-party consent” laws. If there are more than two people involved in the conversation, all must consent to the taping.

 

[JimmyJaffa]

Because his insurance company pays, does not mean you have to pay. They will have to take you to court and "prove" that you were at fault. Was there a police report made? How many other bumpers were 'taken off' before and after this BMW came through? Just as I thought NONE. We have won against the insurance company demands. It is best to ignore their demands, or inquires.

 

[Washmee]

On Feb. 8th on what turned out to be a 902 car day instead of an 1,100 car day, a woman who's been through before and knows the routine decides put her foot on the brake and jumps 4 rollers, in the process, the wheel turned and pushed her off the track 18" away from a sign that has both words and pictures and says "Having a problem going thru wash... Honk Horn for attendant. Does she do this, of course not! Instead she turns a ride thru car wash into a drive thru car wash and runs directly into my 3 rinse arches nearly knocking them over. She the puts it in revers and treis to drive forward 2 more times again hitting the rinse arches, finally, second time she backed up she hit the car behind her who fianlly honked the horn. We stopped the line, got her back on the track but it took another 95 minutes to repair the damage and open up again, costing us 157 cars (est. $1,350 in revenue) and another $1,000 in damage to the arches. I showher the video and of course she swears she didn't do anything wrong (or right for that matter) and wants her car reapired $1,900. I declined her kind offer and told her no. Her insurance company is now trying to come after me for the damages claiming the our equipment caused the damage. Though laughable as the video shows, I have turned around and sued the customer in small claims court for $2,356 to protect myself from the lawsuit I expect the insurance company to file. We go to court June 24th. I'll let you know the results. her insurance company wants me to turn the claim in to my insurance company, I told them when pigs fly since there was no equipment malfunction rather brain malfunction of their client.

Bill, How did you fare on the other damage claim you posted about from this winter? The one where the customer put on their brakes in the wash, damaged the car following them and then drove away. Did you end up paying for the second car?

 

[Earl Weiss]

The following from some legal sites:

http://www.thelaw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-592.html

Federal law allows recording of phone calls and other electronic communications with the consent of at least one party to the call. A majority of the states and territories have adopted wiretapping statutes based on the federal law, although most also have extended the law to cover in-person conversations. Thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia permit individuals to record conversations to which they are a party without informing the other parties that they are doing so. These laws are referred to as ?one-party consent? statutes, and as long as you are a party to the conversation, it is legal for you to record it. (Nevada also has a one-party consent statute, but the state Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party rule.)<<<



QUOTE]


the link only refers to conversations. Not telephone conversations. Don't confuse the 2. Do you have a link addressing phone conversations?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Found it.

According to this site

http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

You are correct.

 

[bigleo48]

Just on a bit of a side note. Around here there seems to be more and more damage to buildings and cars by older seniors. You know the ones where a restaurant or shop entrance was demolished by a senior getting into a parked car and pressing the gas instead of the brake!

We have senors day here on Tuesday...last week we had one fall asleep in the bay and another drive into the machine!

BigLeo

 

[pitzerwm]

Axx that is true, but your sign in court holds up everytime.