cant figure out why my bay seems to be starving for water.......PLEASE HELP!!!!!

[csmith]

This is a problem I've been dealing with for a while and nothing seems to fix the problem. I don't think I am sucking to much water because I've always used the same tips until recently I actually went down a size. I've got a 5 bay self serve wash running cat 310 pumps with a separate line for hot water and another for cold water, ive got a 3 way erie valve that tie the two together then go to the pump and have clear in input lines, also have soap and wax feed before the pump with solenoid valves. when my fifth bay (the closest one to my water supply) is running all 5 pumps are running it starts to cut in and at to almost no pressure., when this happens I can go inside and look at my input lines and see gaps in the water before it hits the pump, when it is running by it self it is just fine and doesn't have any issue... Things ive tried one at a time to try to fix the problem are,

Tried putting new lines and fittings on my soap and wax input thought it could be sucking in air from being a little worn, and replace solenoid valves.

Tried taking the pulsation dampner out and just putting a plug in, as some one said it could be blown out inside.

Ive got cut off valves coming from both hot and cold water, tried to replace both of those because both knobs seemed loose and one was dripping.

Tried putting a fresh pump head on.

also changed all my tips from 25060 to 15050.

all new lines coming into the pump.

last I took the 3 way valve out and just ran the cold water straight to the pump and I am still having this problem

anyone else have any suggestions, ive also tried to take the caps off and let the water just flow from my imput line to try and flush anything that was in there out

 

[chaz]

Is your water coming from central holding tank? If so the full valve may be the issue

 

[2Biz]

Pictures of your equipment would help....Do you have gravity fed hot and cold water tanks?

I run Erie valves for hot and cold gravity fed water, but I have 1/2" hose all the way back to the tank that supplies each Erie valve and pump.... More information on how your equipment is plumbed will help...

What size main do you have coming in the ER? Do you have a pressure gage on the city water supply? Mine runs about 40 psi and never see more than a few PSI drop when all 4 bays are running. I have a 2" main that is reduced to a 1" meter....

 

[MEP001]

Tried taking the pulsation dampner out and just putting a plug in, as some one said it could be blown out inside.

It's time to not listen to that someone, as there's no way possible that a bad pulsation dampener can cause any problem with the pump or the pressure.

when this happens I can go inside and look at my input lines and see gaps in the water before it hits the pump

You must be drawing air through a small leak. You should never see air in the lines. There must be enough gravity pressure on the water to keep it from drawing air unless all five bays are running. Do you have the quick connect tubing fittings anywhere on the feed side? They're really bad about leaking enough to allow air in but not enough to drip with any pressure on them.

 

[Randy]

My wild ass guess would be your incoming water supply is to small or your pressure is to low to handle the draw of all the pumps running at the same time. How big is your incoming water line? I'd put a gauge on your incoming water supply start everything up and see how low your water pressure drops. If you have a water softener I'd bypass it. "GAPS" in your water means you are getting air in the system, this is NOT a good thing as it will damage your pump heads. It almost sounds like you might have multiple problems.

 

[csmith]

my float valve has no problem keeping the tank full when this is happening

 

[csmith]

I had push fittings but took them all out as well. I will post pictures of my set up later this evening,I didn't think it would be the pulsation dampener but the guy at mark vii told me that could be a problem so I was open to suggestions.

 

[2Biz]

I don't think it's the push fittings. I have them and don't have issues. Again, do you have hot and cold float tanks. Or hot float tank and city pressure for cold water? Makes a huge difference when trying to help you with your problem...

 

[MEP001]

I don't think it's the push fittings. I have them and don't have issues.

Some of the push tubing fittings aren't much of a problem, like the all plastic John Guest. The brass ones with the red thread sealant applied are the worst I've seen, they can be fine for years and then you just touch it and it starts to leak. The plated ones with the green ring to remove the tubing aren't as bad, but they are terrible about corroding where you can't release the tubing, and the swivel 90 ones will leak at the swivel. Which ones are you using?

 

[2Biz]

Which ones are you using?

Mostly SMC brass with the white sealant on the threads. I also use John Guest. Never had a single issue out of either.

 

[csmith]

 

[Jeff_L]

Can we get this one question answered? Do you gravity feed both hot and cold? Or is one or both city pressure? If gravity fed, does each pump have its own feed line from the tank(s)?

 

[2Biz]

I've asked the same questions more than once and haven't received a response. Csmith, if you don't know just tell us so and we'll help you figure out what you have. But until we know how your pumps are plumbed, there's no posible way we can diagnose your problem.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

He mentioned Mark VII in a previous post, so I would bet that he has a Proline system. They are gravity fed. If he has those two big 2" manifolds across the back of the pump stands he may be getting a trapped air bubble in there from time to time. Since they are basically level, an air pocket can't easily migrate back to the holding tank and dissipate. I once had an issue with a high spot in the manifold where two pump stands joined. I figured out that air was getting trapped there, but I had a hard time coming up with a solution. I ended up using one of those ice maker water valves that attaches to a pipe, to vent the manifold and let any bubble escape. I attached it with a couple of big hose clamps and ran a plastic tube up the back of the stand, higher than the water level in the holding tank.

 

[JGinther]

I was just going to ask if its a Mark VII. The proline didn't work well, and they pretty much just stuck with things that dont work well through the generations. All of their modular pump rack designs that manifold the lower 2 inch water hoses have the dumb problem IB fixed. The real problem is on their newer designs, all of the valving for soap, wax, presoak, etc. is actually higher than the dilution tanks... So the problem is that when the brass (yes, they used brass manifolds) corrodes, air sucks in and ruins their pumps and it starts to sound like a Mark VII car wash. Normal car wash equipment starts to leak fluid out of the lines where corrosion or cracked hoses fail, but not on Mark VIIs. They just suck in air and leave no hint of a leak. My advice is to put the fluid module up around 2 feet higher.

 

[csmith]

View attachment 1196 this is a picture of my stand, I've got 2 2inch lines coming from my holding tank (one hot one cold) coming in that reduced down to a 3/4 fitting for each bay, meet at an Erie valve and then have a 1/2 inch pipe fitting from there that turns into a T fitting with one line being a supply line to the pump and one line being a cycle return.from my pressure regulator

 

[csmith]

View attachment 1197 View attachment 1198 View attachment 1199 hopefully these pictures help

 

[MEP001]

There's very likely air entering the pump, probably from one of the tubing lines. It doesn't do it all the time because there's enough gravity "pressure" unless all the bays are running.

 

[csmith]

any ideas on what I could do to fix this?

 

[MEP001]

Replace all the 1/4" tubing and fittings from the solenoids to the pump.