Age old soap question

[cdreed06]

I have read several older posts on the different soaps but all seem to be dated several years ago so here goes.... What soap is best for the self service HP and FB? Of course needs to be cheap but also work good. Presently the wash is using the FB soap in both. Is this practice ok or do we need to use different ones for the FB and HP? The HP doesn't seem to really look like it has any suds. We will be running this wash as of tomorrow morning and noticed today while going over everything that we are going to be needing soap within the next week or so. I can't remember the name of the FB soap but it was cherry and the label on the white 5 gallon container was black. (poor memory I know). Anyway what is your opinions?

 

[Plow Guy]

soap

It is hard to get a real good, cheap Hp soap.I do believe in using a cheap pre soak for the brush.Friction and cheap pre soak work wonders. I have tried mixing powder, I prefer liquids for better rinsing. I try to buy a good Hp soap in a larger container to get the price down. Reduce your shipping cost with a concentrate. Buy local if you can.
Good luck

 

[Waxman]

I like Orange Cream for HP soap and Bubble Up for foamy brush, both from Kleenrite in 5 gal. concentrates.

Both give a great show, smell awesome and work decent. Can't beat the concentrates, IMO.

I learned about them from Randy Nix and John Lynn; both great and frugal veteran carwash operators!

 

[cdreed06]

I appreciate you guys taking time to answer me. I do want to stay with a concentrate, the prewash is powder and I'm just not sure about getting it thoroughly mixed.

 

[mac]

Real good and cheap do not normally go together in the same sentence. Do you find real good and cheap with anything in life? Steaks, liquor, cars, houses, women? When you consider the relatively small percentage of your operating costs that chemicals are, buying top shelf stuff should not hurt your bottom line.

 

[cdreed06]

I understand the you get what you pay for but we are just starting out and our seed money is leaving quick with start up costs and I like to eat

 

[2Biz]

One of the things I did when I purchased our wash about a year ago was get a list of supplies and distributors from the previous owner. It gave me some sort of starting point. He got most of the normal supplies, drop vendor supplies, electronics, valves, solenoids, etc from Kleen Rite. He got all the chemicals from Tri Valley (Warsaw Chemicals). I stuck with both KR and Tri Valley....The selling point for Tri Valley is they deliver every 6 weeks and delivery is free of charge. Plus my equipment was already set up for the Warsaw Chemicals. I don't know if I'd like mixing powders? So far I've never had a tip plug using the Liquid Concentrates..

I would question using FB soap for your HP soap. My FB soap is quite a bit thicker than my HP soap requiring a lower dilution ratio. Maybe this is your problem with your HP soap? You might verify the tip your using as to what is suggested on the container. My FB is 60:1 and my HP Soap is 90:1. Price range for all my products (5 gal containers), FB, HP Soap, Lemon Wax, and Presoak are between $38.00 and $43.00...Cheaper per gallon for 55 gal drums like already mentioned. I'm slowly moving this direction.

 

[cdreed06]

Thank you 2Biz, I will get a list from him. I do think that we will go with a separate soap for the HP and FB. It just seems right. The price range you are talking about sounds really good to me... I will check out those vendors you are talking about. Free shipping certainly will affect my decision!

 

[2Biz]

FYI... KR has Free Shipping for a short time after the convention. Some of the guys on here buy from them and get a years supply to avoid the shipping charges. Shipping can be a lot if you have to truck it in and pay normal charges. After owning your wash for a while, you might get a better feel for how much you would use in a year and this might be a good direction to go. If Randy uses KR Chemicals, they have to be good! Its also possible the Previous Owner bought locally from a distributor like mine to where they deliver free or have a minimal charge. Two things to consider...

 

[Whale of a Wash]

I think everyone has given enough good advice on soap. I was just thinking if the soap your using gives good FB, but no suds on HP, you will need to change concentration for the HP, or adjust it with whatever you decide to use.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I Use KR. Had issues with orange cream gelling in tank and lines. Switched to summer breeze. Similar problem with purple passion pre soak. Use Cherry blossom for the FB.

I ordered the ultra lean tips for the hydrominders so no mixing is needed.

36 pails is always free shipping. With FB, HP, Sealer Wax, Tire / engine clean and anti freeze foam brush soap it's easy to put together a 36 pail order. Post show it's usualy buy 3 get one free so I order then.

 

[cdreed06]

I think I have a lot to learn on this stuff. I really appreciate everybody's help.

 

[Mel(NC)]

Earl,

Do you dilute to the ratios that KR recommends? For FB it is 600-900:1. I can operate at 240:1 (a little runny) but 120:1(purple tip) gives me the best foam. For the tire cleaner, they recommend 12-15/1 which would cost too much. I think I am using 36:1 for the tire cleaner.

 

[2Biz]

Another thing that was not mentioned and something to consider, your chemicals will react differently with the amount of hardness that is in your water. If you have hard water and do not run a softener, you will need more chemicals (Lower dilution ratio). Running softened water will also be easier on your equipment.

 

[cdreed06]

We do have a water softner, but I hadn't even thought about that. I appreciate the help.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Earl,

Do you dilute to the ratios that KR recommends? For FB it is 600-900:1. I can operate at 240:1 (a little runny) but 120:1(purple tip) gives me the best foam. For the tire cleaner, they recommend 12-15/1 which would cost too much. I think I am using 36:1 for the tire cleaner.

I will have to check. I know for the Cherry Blossom FB I use an ultra lean tip so it's less than 240/ 1 which is a regular pink tip and ultra lean starts at less than that. I will check the tire cleaner as well. We have a foam assist and it works well. I will see if I can get video when it's warm enough that we use the regular FB.

 

[bigleo48]

I use the KR foam brush soaps and mix pump pressure, air and liquid to suit.

For the HP soap, I use KR's Kleen Track 2A. I use to use the KR Orange cream, but in the winter it would freeze to the walls and look like rust. The 2A works well, has a clean smell and good show and less than half the price of the Orange cream.

 

[CCAR]

I have found that using foam brush soap is not a good choice for HP soap in my opinion. When we purchased our wash it was using a product called Blue Label powder by Choice mfg. I thought I needed to try others just to find the best one. Through my experimenting and customer complaints, I have found that some products don't work. Many of my customers want to wash with HP soap and rinse and leave. You are not going to get a car clean with FB soap or a neutral PH soap such as Fonic Wash from JBS ( I've tried them). Yes there is lots of foam and high dilution ratios but they will not clean as well as an alkaline high PH soap will. It just depends what you and your customers want. If you have them trained to use the foamy brush every time they wash you could get by with Fonic Wash ( It would out foam a FB soap), that is if you want to just have a show and no cleaning. For my personal preference I keep going back to Blue Label powder. You do have to mix it but it's the cheapest. The liquid choice I use a lot is Extreme by Scotch Plaid. This works as good as this powder it just costs more because of freight to my place. I have had many loyal customers complain when I switch soaps, they can tell if their car comes out clean or not. Also JBS now has a new one called Fonic Wash PH Plus. I have not tried it but it is a high PH alkaline detergent. One last comment I have found that a lot of manufactures dilution ratios are just a guide to get you started. Most liquid presoaks I usually run around 50-60/1, Liquid HP detergents 36-50/1. At these dilutions they work great and put on a nice show for the customer.You can run them at a higher ratio and they may look like they are working but in reality they are so diluted they would have a hard time doing much of anything except foam a little.

 

[mjwalsh]

cdreed06,

Warsaw Formula 488 Plus is what we are happy with for our high pressure soap --- with free consistent delivery. We get our dog wash chemicals from KR though.

In case you missed this thread --- here is some more info:

http://forum.autocareforum.com/showthread.php?t=8339

mike walsh king koin of bismarck

 

[bigleo48]

We do have a water softner, but I hadn't even thought about that. I appreciate the help.

This begs the question...have you checked the water for hardness (ie, is the softner working)?

This should be part of regular routines...check water hardness, titrate soaps, unless you are just happy with the 'show'