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When a supplier becomes the competition
- Thread starter mac
- Start date
BayWatch
Jedi apprentice
Red, not sure why you are argueing with me either. Not sure why you think I am a crybaby or feel like I got my toes stepped on as well. Just stated my personal opinion. And by the way, I have never mentioned who I have or currently work for while a member of this site and we have never met, so if you could keep "it" between us that would be just ethical of you. Any post I have made has been based on my experience not based on the agenda of someone else.
And by the way, I see you have some "unpublished" facts about me however you have made comments that show you have no idea who I am or what I am about. You likely know my age as well, and like most people underestimate my knowledge, experience and or maturity. Not many people achieve the things I have, so please dont take me for some punk kid. I approach my career as if I did own the company for which I work. I am not a "collect a paycheck" type of person. If you knew anything about me, even from the outside, you could figure that out.
And just so we are clear, if Sonny's built a wash next to someone that recently purchased a large equipment package from them or has been buying equipment from them for decades that would be unethical of them. If they have no involvement with this competitor then I feel they can do as they please. If Sonnys felt like the guy had a good business and capture rate they would not have moved in on it. If I thought I could build in an area that has an underperforming competitor then why not. I would be stupid for not doing it.
And by the way, I see you have some "unpublished" facts about me however you have made comments that show you have no idea who I am or what I am about. You likely know my age as well, and like most people underestimate my knowledge, experience and or maturity. Not many people achieve the things I have, so please dont take me for some punk kid. I approach my career as if I did own the company for which I work. I am not a "collect a paycheck" type of person. If you knew anything about me, even from the outside, you could figure that out.
And just so we are clear, if Sonny's built a wash next to someone that recently purchased a large equipment package from them or has been buying equipment from them for decades that would be unethical of them. If they have no involvement with this competitor then I feel they can do as they please. If Sonnys felt like the guy had a good business and capture rate they would not have moved in on it. If I thought I could build in an area that has an underperforming competitor then why not. I would be stupid for not doing it.
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Red Baron
Active member
If you're wanting to remain anonymous, you should think about changing your profile because it removes much of the mystery.
Trust me when I say 3 things:
1) I know exactly who you are.
2) I never said anything to divulge anything about you beyond making it clear, to you, that I know who you are.
3) I felt a need to know that based on your statements that you're willing to build across the street from anyone as long as there's a buck to be made....especially given that you operate in the same area as I do.
This isn't New York and you aren't Donald Trump, but if you are in my area and think right-and-wrong aren't part of the equasion, I'm going to know who you are.
Again, your age is no mystery and of no interest to me - you have it listed on your My Face Page which is listed on your profile.
cont...
Red Baron
Active member
I only know that you own a car wash I considered purchasing so it's pretty obvious we operate in the same area, especially given that it's common knowledge in this area that I'm going to build another wash in the town you're in. You have less to worry about me than I do about you, simply because I wouldn't cram another car wash right across the street from you just because there might be a buck in it. Evidently you would do that, so you can be sure I'm going to know who you are.
I didn't say otherwise. Anything I've said on the subject has been about a company competing directly with their customers. I said it's legal, and shortsighted.
I've been in the situation before where the big company walked over me just because, by virtue of his company's size and financial horesepower, he could. I hope that never happens to you but if it does, you might change the way you think about the pursuit of riches without considering how it might affect others.
IMO this is one of the main problems in our industry. And we really have many problems.
Oversaturation of car washes.
It's bad enough when people build washes on top of each other but when distributors either do it or talk someone into building close to another wash, or a maunfacture builds by another wash it just not good for anybody.
I don't mind manufactors building a wash close by their plant to test equipment. It's been part of industry for a very long time.
Everbody lose's. Car washes close up.
Oversaturation of car washes.
It's bad enough when people build washes on top of each other but when distributors either do it or talk someone into building close to another wash, or a maunfacture builds by another wash it just not good for anybody.
I don't mind manufactors building a wash close by their plant to test equipment. It's been part of industry for a very long time.
Everbody lose's. Car washes close up.
BayWatch
Jedi apprentice
Red, just so you understand, when I am talking about myself, I mean myself, not the company I work for. I am not big business. I never tried to be annonymous, only to represent myself as someone in the biz. When I asked to keep it between us I didnt mean for you to keep something private, just to keep the discusion about you and me. Im really not sure why you need to watch out for me. I have no pockets to speak of.
You have a good looking wash with a neat atmosphere. I have been thru your place many times on the way out of town. If someone was to build a wash close to you, they would be stupid. You clearly have the market and there is not enough to go around. If you think you can come to LBK and actually build a new location, come join the party. I just hope you have looked at the market and seen what is happening. I'd hate for people to think you are oversaturating the market. There are quite a few for sell however.
You have a good looking wash with a neat atmosphere. I have been thru your place many times on the way out of town. If someone was to build a wash close to you, they would be stupid. You clearly have the market and there is not enough to go around. If you think you can come to LBK and actually build a new location, come join the party. I just hope you have looked at the market and seen what is happening. I'd hate for people to think you are oversaturating the market. There are quite a few for sell however.
Red Baron
Active member
BW, fair enough.
I appreciate your comments about my wash. I have a lot more I intend to do with it. I try very hard to do as well as I can with it while not annoying Rip Griffin as they're deep pockets enough ($250MM/yr) that they could squash me like a bug if I got aggressive. I get mine and they get theirs.
My primary goal in Lubbock is to find locations where I can fly under the radar - not get under anyone's skin, especially Q and X. They too could squash me like a bug. I have a couple of such sites I'm looking at.
My original intent with Red Baron when I built it was/is to franchise or license it to others. Admitedly, I have not had enough spare time to do the aviation theme as fully as I want. I have figured out that I need to work harder at making it easily duplicable, rather than findign odds and end aviation stuff.
Yours is a great location, I came within a whisker of buying it myself.
I appreciate your comments about my wash. I have a lot more I intend to do with it. I try very hard to do as well as I can with it while not annoying Rip Griffin as they're deep pockets enough ($250MM/yr) that they could squash me like a bug if I got aggressive. I get mine and they get theirs.
My primary goal in Lubbock is to find locations where I can fly under the radar - not get under anyone's skin, especially Q and X. They too could squash me like a bug. I have a couple of such sites I'm looking at.
My original intent with Red Baron when I built it was/is to franchise or license it to others. Admitedly, I have not had enough spare time to do the aviation theme as fully as I want. I have figured out that I need to work harder at making it easily duplicable, rather than findign odds and end aviation stuff.
Yours is a great location, I came within a whisker of buying it myself.
Seems this issue might be getting addressed a little differently if anyone doing the postings actually owned a car wash that is now directly competing with top management of this large mfg./distributor. Not only was their multi-million dollar location built 6 hours north of their mfg. plant but was also built within a couple miles of three pre-existing washes. They currently have a large billboard (one of a few) falsely advertising their wash directly across from our car wash and YES...we WERE a previous loyal customer who had purchased this companies equipment, supplies, etc. in the past. We would have NEVER thought we'd have to compete with our supplier, their COO, top mgmt., etc. in our own direct market! If it can happen to us be assured it can happen to anyone!!! Who knows...they might be offering a class on unethical competition at the next 'Car Wash College'!!!
Mr rykopro, if you take the time to actually read my postings, you will find that I did not preach to anyone about anything. I simply stated the facts and wanted to get the opinions of the professional operators who visit this site. Please be a little more careful in the future. I would also like to know if in fact, as you state, Ginsan has done the same thing. That is build washes as a competitor to existing operators. Please supply some facts on this. As you can tell, or maybe you can't, from the responses here, most operators don't agree with this practice.
It seems the issue here is that the wash was built in a city that is a 6 hour drive from the factory. Even if it was built 6 blocks from the factory, it would still be competing against somebody's wash. What does the geography matter?
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want them to build one down the street from me either. But having a wash to test equip helps all their customers nationwide.
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want them to build one down the street from me either. But having a wash to test equip helps all their customers nationwide.
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
Here is the statement you made that I was refering to:
" My main point in this was to let operators know that when they buy certain supplies to run their business, they may be enriching their present or future competitor. Again all perfectly legal. Ethics is something that most can't agree on anymore. Most people nowadays think that the ten commands are actually the ten suggestions for a happy life. Oprah is rumored to be having that book soon on her show.
The family that used to own Gin San has wash sites (conveyor, self serve and in bays) all over Grand Rapids. They are called Carlovers http://www.carloverscarwashes.com/
I would not want to compete with my customers if I were the manufacture either. I actually agree with you on this one, I just think its lame how you like to present your "facts".
" My main point in this was to let operators know that when they buy certain supplies to run their business, they may be enriching their present or future competitor. Again all perfectly legal. Ethics is something that most can't agree on anymore. Most people nowadays think that the ten commands are actually the ten suggestions for a happy life. Oprah is rumored to be having that book soon on her show.
The family that used to own Gin San has wash sites (conveyor, self serve and in bays) all over Grand Rapids. They are called Carlovers http://www.carloverscarwashes.com/
I would not want to compete with my customers if I were the manufacture either. I actually agree with you on this one, I just think its lame how you like to present your "facts".
Well it's a start. At least you agree with me. Not sure how it was lame of me to present it like this, but in time you may come around. Thanks for the info on these people up there. They have stiffed many of their suppliers by the bankruptcy, This site alows us to illuminate the business practices of them. You be the judge.
rph9168
Carwashguy
If you are referring to Mike Fazio, he has been involved in operating car washes in Massachusetts and Florida for many years and not involved with Sonny's except that he is Paul's brother. I think Mike has as much right as anyone to own and operate a wash. This situation may not be as clear cut as most think. Should Mike not be able to own and operate a wash because his brother owns Sonny's?
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
If manufactures decide to compete with their customers I would hope they would at least use this info to develope their product. I would think they would be better off having a "test" site run by an operator with no factory ties, this method should yield more real world results. Operator feedback is normally better than engineer feedback when it comes to actual operation and cleaning ability.
I only assume Mac is talking about Sonnys, I do not want to review six pages of posts to check his writing.
I only assume Mac is talking about Sonnys, I do not want to review six pages of posts to check his writing.
Anybody can own a business so long as they can purchase one. When I started this post I wasn't 100% sure that Sonny's was directly involved, but I thought the idea merited discussion. I have a local Mark 7 distributor here that has built many washes, some within sight of existing operations. I think that people getting into the business would like to know that their supplier might also become their competitor. There is no morality, ethics, or legality involved or insinuated by me. Just thought the topic good, and aparantly so did many of the professional operators who visit here.
