Ric
Cantree Member
Can I grab 24v from a bay transformer to power the weep miser or should I feed it with a separate power supply?
Weep Miser voltage input source
- Thread starter Ric
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MEP001
Well-known member
I'd feed it with a separate power source. It becomes a pain in the butt when you need to shut power off to the bay and your weep comes on or your timer loses programming. I used to work on different equipment that the same idiot wired up with the low-pressure systems drawing power from one bay.
I should have known better than the answer I gave. I was thinking more about load v/s consequences of having it on a transformer powering a bay. When I bought our wash, the Weepmiser 24v input was supplied by the 24v transformer powering the floor heat boiler. The Weep system wouldn't work unless the breaker for the boiler was on. Didn't take me long to get that figured out. AFTER I got my first month NG bill! Now its on a seperate transformer...
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
As MEP mentioned there is an issue if you shut that bay down. I have a setup like that and must turn a manual valve off when I power down. That is all well and good. The problem is usually when I forget to turn it back on.
You want to have a separate power source for the Weepmizer. Whenever I install a Weepmizer I install it in a enclosure, this protects it from water damage should a hose break. I also run all the power in conduit, this makes for a nice clean install. I use one Normally open solenoid valve to control the Weep water for the wash. You also want the leave the Weepmizer powered up during the summer months, this keeps the battery charged.
Jeff_L
Well-known member
I agree with Randy, however I offer a suggestion should you decide to leave it powered on. I'm always fearful of having power always applied to a solenoid with no intermittance like you have in the winter when it is cycling.
For me, I put a manual valve on the source side of the solenoid and I disconnect the power to the solenoid. That way the weepmiser stays on all summer keeping the battery ready to go, no power to the solenoid, and no open valve putting water down the pipes.
This was probably common knowledge and a no brainer to all, but if I informed one person, that's good enough for me.
For me, I put a manual valve on the source side of the solenoid and I disconnect the power to the solenoid. That way the weepmiser stays on all summer keeping the battery ready to go, no power to the solenoid, and no open valve putting water down the pipes.
This was probably common knowledge and a no brainer to all, but if I informed one person, that's good enough for me.
Its nice to have a switch disconnecting power to the solenoid like mentioned. I always test my weep when I know the temps are going to drop below freezing. It makes it easy to test when temps are above 36°. I had a weep gun malfunction once and didn't discover it untill the bay froze up. Then I installed the switch!
Earl Weiss
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Years ago, I may have seen this somewhere, I started installing all solenoids with a power cord and plug for an outlet. The power source for that solenoid was then wired to an outlet. I did this because hard wired solenoids for the tunnels were a pain to change without killing the power and ran the risk of a short if i didn't and needed to do it fast and on the fly. Now I simply unplug it and swap it out and plug it in again.
Can easily test NC with an extension cord to a regular outlet or NO by unplugging.
Here is a smaple. It was for a tunnel CTA but same idea.
http://www.youtube.com/user/EarlWeiss#p/u/10/yToxbXhNVZw
Ric
Cantree Member
okay...so I supplied 24v input power to the weepmiser via a 24v 40va plug in the wall power supply. It worked fine with 2 solenoids but when I added a third the power supply fried. I then supplied 24v power to the weepmiser from a bay. With three solenoids running off the weepmiser it kicked out the 4 amp breaker in my 24v bay supply power. With 2 solenoids running it worked fine until I ran the bay, then it tripped the low voltage breaker. The 3 amp fuse in the weepmiser never tripped during any of this. I am wanting to run 3 - 24v solenoids off from output 1 on the weepmiser. Do I need a more robust 24v transformer feeding the input of the weepmiser? All three solenoids must run off of output 1 on the weepmiser because I want them to pulse. Output 2 is constant on/off.
Ric
Cantree Member
So 3 solenoids is a bit over 1 amp. Doesn't seem like much...but what does the 40va refer to on the supply transformer?
MEP001
Well-known member
I had to research it - it wasn't as direct as I thought.
It goes vA ÷ V to get the amps the transformer can produce, so 40 vA ÷ 24 = 1.67A. Watts ÷ volts = amps, so 10 watts per solenoid ÷ 24 volts = .41 amps. That's assuming Dema NO solenoids - I've seen some, like ASCO, up to 22 watts.
It goes vA ÷ V to get the amps the transformer can produce, so 40 vA ÷ 24 = 1.67A. Watts ÷ volts = amps, so 10 watts per solenoid ÷ 24 volts = .41 amps. That's assuming Dema NO solenoids - I've seen some, like ASCO, up to 22 watts.
Ric
Cantree Member
It seems as though that rating (40va) is common with these off the shelf transformers and power supplies. Is the something more "robust" available?
I.B. Washincars
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Ric
Cantree Member
Bingo!...Thank you.
Ric
Cantree Member
Got the 24v 100va trans. Now when I add the 3rd solenoid to output 1 on the weepmiser it blows the 3 amp fuse in the weepmiser. I guess I need to add a relay to make this work. I've done it before, but I am a little bit challenged at laying out a relay circuit to make this work. Can anyone provide a detailed diagram and a relay part # to make this work? That is...to allow the output 1 of the weepmiser (24v) to operate a relay that will feed three 24v solenoids.
MEP001
Well-known member
I can draw a diagram if you really need it, but it's just a matter of connecting the relay coil to the WeepMizer the way you have the solenoids connected now, and connecting the solenoids to the relay the way they're connected to the WeepMizer now.
Earl Weiss
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I know you have a lot invested in this now, but it would seem easier (maybe) to switch to 110V solenoids. No issues with the extra transformer and relay components.
Kleen-Rite sells the Mercury relay. Overkill for this application, but $22 bucks isn't a bad price for a good relay like this. I have them on my vacs now (Thanks to Randy and the guys here on the forum) and they work great. Millions of cycle life....
I am having a hard time with why three solenoids are tripping a 3a fuse. Each of my bays have a 75va transformer (Fused 4a) running all the solenoids for that bay along with a coin box heater. I am thinking you have to have an issue with one of your solenoids. Are the coils the right voltage? Is one of them maybe 120v? Most 24v solenoids I have pull in the neigborhood of 6-15w, maybe .5a each @24v. You should be way under the 3a fuse your blowing?
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-50-mercury-relays-24v.aspx
I am having a hard time with why three solenoids are tripping a 3a fuse. Each of my bays have a 75va transformer (Fused 4a) running all the solenoids for that bay along with a coin box heater. I am thinking you have to have an issue with one of your solenoids. Are the coils the right voltage? Is one of them maybe 120v? Most 24v solenoids I have pull in the neigborhood of 6-15w, maybe .5a each @24v. You should be way under the 3a fuse your blowing?
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-50-mercury-relays-24v.aspx
