WASHBOT unit- finally a new technology to the carwash industry

[car wash maniac]

Bob, That seems to be a slightly premature categorization. What i have seen is real innovation with practical applications.

The faster process speeds are there. Patrick could answer better than I can why he slowed it down, but i believe I answered your concern in my previous post.

To answer your third concern about is it better, Yes.

Let us see the Petit video and let us judge. I am always looking for improvements and base my opinions on personal observation and factual information. Patricks' new happy customers and sales volume impress me more.

 

[car wash maniac]

Nozzle technology is new and different. easily adjustable angle of impingement is another. If He tells you, he would have to kill you

Better mapping. from a service standpoint there are differences in bearing application and design.

Every manufacturer is enamored with their own ideas. Haters hate. Stealers steal. Patents protect and lawyers make the most money.

I would not begin to reveal any secrets, if i knew any, on a forum.

I just have seen with my own experienced eyes that it is worth talking about. that is all.

 

[car wash maniac]

I can't convince you. You haven't been there to see it. It does. I can make a Laser 4000 do a top notch clean with 3 minutes and 38 seconds. Do it all the time on a pot load of washes.

 

[car wash maniac]

I don't know the details but the combo wash is about 168K, I think. Maybe Patrick would know. Oh, and I think that is with normal install included?? When it come to sales stuff, I zone out. I am a techie at heart.

 

[MEP001]

Too many posts from new forum members that read too much like advertisements.

 

[rph9168]

I tend to agree with Robert. For it to be a true innovation I think it would have to be either cost a lot less, be faster, clean better or use substantially less water or chemical. I don't think this machine does anything like that. It reminds me of a very old episode of the Superman series. The professor built a machine that made gold. The problem was that the ingredients cost more than the gold itself was worth.

 

[rph9168]

Too many posts from new forum members that read too much like advertisements.

I was thinking the same thing. Although the new posters claimed no connection to the manufacturer it sure seemed like there had to be some connection like being a potential investor or distributor, partner or friend.

 

[PatrickB]

I am located in a small town of 13000 people ...I have an autec wash 500 yards from me on one side and 2-4000's 1.5 miles on the other side of me .both on same road..we opened Jan.29 and that date thru may 31 my revenue was up 22% over same period last year and also my main drive way was closed at one point for 6 days due to road construction. Because I am not the only wash in the area I personally choose slower wash cycles because I very seldom have cars more than 3 in line other than snow and pollen season...but I do plan to experiment soon with speeding up some of the passes

 

[robert roman]

“I don't know the details but the combo wash is about 168K….”

If so, WashBot has no price advantage.

PX Machines website shows that WashBot has only three axis or degrees of freedom (rotate, side-to-side and front-to-back).

Many available in-bays have four (up and down) or more degrees of freedom.

So, WashBot actually has less independent parameters as compare to some other in-bays.

“….similar to the robust engineering that made the Mars Rover possible.”

A penny is a coin but it isn’t a quarter.

Product description states goals and objectives are aesthetics, get customer’s attention with robotic acrobatics, make people feel secure and persuade reluctant touch-free customers to try soft touch wash.

Good luck.

Quite frankly, if this machine could be made to operate at a rate of speed necessary to produce a wash in three minutes, I believe it might be frightening to many motorists.

At that speed, I also suspect wash quality would be affected.

I’d have more faith with an autonomous robotic paint arm like the ones OEM’s use to paint cars on the assembly line.

All you need is cash and robotic integration firm to make it work.

So, bottom line, WashBot intends to create competitive advantage by means of differentiation strategy and not cost or niche.

It’s certainly different, but I doubt it is better than what is already available.

 

[rph9168]

I agree with Bob again. Even if this machine can be made to go faster it simply is not anything that new and exciting. People don't get the vehicle washed to get entertained by the equipment. While some of the lighting effects available today make the aesthetics of a wash better most customers are more interested in a clean, dry vehicle in a reasonable amount of time.

I think if there is a major improvement in machines it will involve robotics much like is used in the manufacturing process in many vehicles today. The problem is cost. A guy named Steve (forgot his last name) developed a touch free machine in Denver back in the early 90's. It worked very well and involved a lot of robotics and an expensive pumping system. The problem was that it cost 50% more than anything in the market at that time. He did sell several in the area at a reduced cost but eventually shut down. Even today robotics come at a very high cost and until someone can invent a better machine that is cost competitive I don't see anything revolutionary on the horizon.

 

[robert roman]

I specified a robotic arm carwash system for an integration firm several years ago.

Reason is the idea is small potatoes and of absolutely no interest to OEM’s of robotic arms.

I estimated it would cost $600,000 for design work, machine tooling, safety guarding, integration services and programming.

Made in batches, turnkey would cost around $200,000.

However, this machine is touch-less only.

Big advantage is speed and precision.

Robotic arm can move at 90 to 120 meters per minute at very close tolerances whereas most in-bays move at 5 meters per minute and close tolerances not so much.

Next problem with both ideas is sales and support.

Parent company here is mom and pop and next big thing usually has others knocking on the door not the other way around.

I like WashBot because it’s different.

Is it practical?

 

[rph9168]

While it does look a little different that what is on the market today to me this machine is more a gimmick than advancement. I like the idea of innovation but this does not cut it. The other factor involved is the decline of touch free washing in general. Will any improvement other than getting a consistently clean vehicle mean much? We all know the "dirty little secret" (excuse the pun) when it comes to touch free washing. It cannot match friction for consistent cleaning especially on really dirty vehicles.

One of the biggest limiting factors in trying to improve a touch free is the chemistry involved. Much like the laws of physics nothing can change as far as the need for dwell time to reduce chemical costs. Either the chemicals need time to work or the dilution ratio needs to be increased to the extent that it becomes cost prohibitive. While improvement of chemical application and use of high pressure would mitigate that somewhat it still limits the time factor as well as the cost.

It is a little bit the same as far as friction. There is a limit to how much friction is really necessary to do a good job. It is highly unlikely that increasing the amount or intensity of friction will improve both the speed and result and could possibly start to cause damage issues. While the newer friction media has improved safety somewhat it usually requires more expensive chemistry to work as well as cloth or even brushes.

Most of us in the industry welcome attempts to improve wash performance but not at a substantial increase in the expense of equipment or operating costs. Surviving and being profitable in today's market it tough enough without increasing those two elements.

 

[car wash maniac]

Obviously you maintain a product bias of your own. You have an owner and an experienced Manager with the responsibilities of over 200 carwashes of various makes and models with over 20 years of experience telling you that there is something good out in the market. You choose to ignore the observations of those people. The cost of the wash I am sure is more than competitive. The wash produces good washes. And I have seen it with my own eyes. Have you?
I recognize intrinsic design improvements that will benefit a carwash owners' pocketbook. I have watched the wash perform and please customers.
Somehow, you interprete this as false or untrue or mistaken. The most logical interpretation is that your bias prevents you from accepting a great new idea.

I'm not advertising nor am I offering anything to anyone. I'm not a distributor or salesman. I am stating my opinion based on actual Visual inspection and over 20 years of experience. If you choose not to open your mind and listen that is entirely up to you. I do believe there are people on this forum that would like to be informed of new innovation. Isn't that the purpose of the forum anyway?

 

[rph9168]

For some reason it appears that other's people's opinions are biased while yours is not. This Forum provides space for all to voice their thoughts. It is up to the reader to decide what to accept or reject. In my case I have over 35 years in this business traveling all over the country working on and observing many different types of washes.

My only bias is what provides the cleanest, driest vehicle possible. Customers buy results, not the process. If they don't like the results they don't return. In the case of this machine what innovation does it provide? Touchless and friction processes have been around for a long time. Unless this machine provides a cleaner or drier vehicle better than others it hardly qualifies as innovation. It is just another option for an operator to choose from.

 

[MEP001]

I'm not advertising nor am I offering anything to anyone. I'm not a distributor or salesman. I am stating my opinion based on actual Visual inspection and over 20 years of experience. If you choose not to open your mind and listen that is entirely up to you. I do believe there are people on this forum that would like to be informed of new innovation. Isn't that the purpose of the forum anyway?

And yet everything you have to say about this machine sounds like an advertisement. This is a forum mainly for open discussion among operators, so why would you come here and create an account just to say how great this machine is when you have no affiliation with it? You've built no reputation here over this 20 years of experience you claim, so why would anyone interpret your opinion differently than anything but an ad?

 

[robert roman]

“This thing is light years ahead of anything I've seen.”

Arguably, such a thing would eclipse performance of what is currently available.

Can Washbot clean as well, produce as many cars an hour and same cost per car as a basic five-brush roll-over like Broadway, Autec, Ryko, etc.?

My educated guess says no.

So, how can this machine be a game changer?

It looks different, changes all the time.

It’s a niche product made by specialty manufacturer, private label basically.

It may be practical in region but I doubt scores of interest on west coast, N.E., Midwest or Great Lakes due to support considerations alone.

What about reliability?

Robotic arms are well made and good for 30,000 hours of operation or expected life of about eight years. Same applies to most in-bays.

Can Washbot keep it up for five to eight years?

Also, in-bays and robotic arms are fairly straightforward in operation.

It looks like there is a lot that can go wrong with Washbot.

Just saying.

 

[car wash maniac]

Sir, I would rather leave it up to good people of this forum to verify for themselves what is good and bad. Your experience has a dictated what you believe, my experiences influence what I believe. I find it very difficult to listen to someone who hasn't even looked at the wash physically and develops an opinion without facts to back it up. I think form can be easily confirmed by going to wash.

I resent your bias and your implication that I have a dog in the hunt. Why don't you simply allow others their say.

Since I have actually seen the wash, I leave it up to you to verify or debunk. But be honest enough and say that until you experience it and learn about the subject you really do not know a thing about it.

Understand that I'm not mad about it and I actually don't really mind your opinions. Because until you actually experience it your opinion means nothing at least I have visual and experiential proof of what I'm talking about. So let us just agree to disagree until your experience actually catches up with mine

 

[car wash maniac]

Thank you washnshine for an open minded reply. You live up to the idea of a forum where new ideas are welcomed. Thanks again.

 

[car wash maniac]

It is not a robotic arm.
What I have seen is very practical.
Time will tell as word gets out.

I advise honest investigation over opinion. Even my own.

 

[rph9168]

Thank you washnshine for an open minded reply. You live up to the idea of a forum where new ideas are welcomed. Thanks again.

I must have missed something. What is new about this other than the way it looks? Does it clean better? Is it faster? Is it less expensive than other comparables on the market? Does it use less product or water? For something to be an innovation it should work better, be more efficient or cost a lot less. As far as watching it in person much can be seen from the video. What makes it so special?