Stumped by a Vacuum Problem

[Big K]

I am hoping someone can provide some wisdom to a vac problem that really has me stumped

Problem: The vac will not turn on after coins are dropped.

Here's where the fun started...

I verified that current was at the two motors and learned that current was detected all over the IDX box and the switch at the coin acceptor (Unit A). Next I moved the motors, IDX box (timer), and the coin acceptor over to another exact same unit (Unit B).

After the components from Unit A were in Unit B, Unit B worked like a charm. However, the Unit B components when installed in Unit A exhibit the same problem with current being detected at the motors, IDX box (timer), and coin acceptor and not turning on. There is no current detected on the unit housing or anywhere else?

Any wisdom on this dilemma would be much appriciated !

 

[Eric H]

What brand vac is this?

I'm betting on a relay/contactor problem or a bad Negative connection.

I had trouble with my air machine over the winter. Could not get it to run. Turned out to be a loose Positve that I would inadvertently press on when taking readings with my meter. when I coin checked it the positive would not make contact. took forever to diagnose that one.

 

[Big K]

What brand vac is this?

I'm betting on a relay/contactor problem or a bad Negative connection.

I had trouble with my air machine over the winter. Could not get it to run. Turned out to be a loose Positve that I would inadvertently press on when taking readings with my meter. when I coin checked it the positive would not make contact. took forever to diagnose that one.

It is a Magic Wand Model 190000, everything appears to be connected well as the all of the wired connections on the timer have ring connectors on screws, the motors and relay on the coin acceptor have blade connections that are snug.

I kinda thought the same thing about the relay on the coin acceptor, but when I swapped it with another one it worked fine on the other machine.

Nevertheless, given your response I'm heading over to check it all again with that in mind.

Thanks Eric H for the response !

 

[MEP001]

Is there a relay between the timer and the motors?

 

[Fatboy769]

Is there a relay between the timer and the motors?

Mep, these particular vacs were made by Industrial Vac and had MW decals on them. If they haven't been altered from the mfg, they came with 2-motors, AT411-E timer and 2" mechanical coin mech.

 

[Big K]

Huge Lesson Learned !

Thank you for your posts and especially to Eric H for getting me heading in the right direction.

After tracing the problem from the circuit breaker to the timer, I found that it was the hack installation that the equipment provider performed...

Testing the wires coming from underneath the machine, I found both the common and hot wire were both hot. I lifted the maching up off of the screws and found a mess underneath. Keep in mind these are 3 yr old machines.

There was an old busted up recepticle covered with electrical tape screwed to a 20 yr old rusted out Job Box cover (which was hot by the way). The female end of the electrical cord that was attached to the aforementioned recepticle looked like it came off of a yard sale lamp. The male plug/cord that went through the side of the machine was not much better with no grounding at all. I could go on and on but after about a couple of hours of cleaning this mess up, it's fixed, safe, and back in operation.

Needless to say in my 6 year tenure of fixing up an old car wash, it really saddens me to know that there are some really short term thinkers out there in the car wash service/equipment supply world and fortunate for my situation no one was hurt !

 

[Big K]

Mep, these particular vacs were made by Industrial Vac and had MW decals on them. If they haven't been altered from the mfg, they came with 2-motors, AT411-E timer and 2" mechanical coin mech.

Yep...that's the one

 

[Earl Weiss]

Short term thinkers. I'm gonna steal that line. we could probably start a thread that would go several pages . I'll start. Conduit under a concrete floor in the tunnel. Wonderful when it rusts after 10-20 years. Concrete vac islands with junction boxes "Watertight" flush with the surface. Yep, they leak! Would have been better to have the box cover on the side with a drain hole. Let's out any water that gets in!

Any number of items that are difficult to service because engineers who design them never consider the oor shmo that has to work on it.

 

[Big K]

Amen Earl!

Thanks for the post!

 

[MEP001]

Any number of items that are difficult to service because engineers who design them never consider the oor shmo that has to work on it.

Yeah, look at this:



That's a 4-stack switch with the function lights hard-wired straight to the outputs, everything tied up tight together and no slack in the wires at all. As they fail I'm rewiring the whole machine and using a PLC and a 2-stack with only one layer used to simplify things. Whoever wired these things clearly had no plan on ever servicing them.

 

[Big K]

I'm with you 100% build it back as simple as you can with the most readily available, common materials you can find that will meet functionality.

No labels or wire markers markers so you basically have to undo the whole thing to figure out where the trouble is coming from. Been there and will most likely be there again, hopefully not soon!

It's very frustrating and the "get the equip in, get it working, and get outta there as fast as you can" mentality is much too common from some of the folks I have mistakenly depended on in the past.

 

[MEP001]

The PLC isn't exactly common, but they're cheap, reliable and easy to get, plus the one unit eliminates four relays and lets me delay the vac or compressor so someone spinning the selector doesn't keep kicking them on and off needlessly.

 

[Big K]

MEP,

The best thing about your plc solution in my opinion and should be a legal disclaimer for any information given to perspective cw investors is you possess the skill set to make this change on you own without having to depend on a stranger or the like who created this situation.
I'm sure you will pick up a couple of extra plc's and keep them handy, thus not being at the mercy of someone else to correct the problems that always come up.

Great post MEP!