Sonny vs. MacNeil mini tunnel

[South FL Newbie]

Hey everyone!


I'm in a bit of a pickle and not sure what the best move to do is... I've narrowed my choices down to these brands, Sonny or MacNeil.


Sonny:

-Seems to be good equipment(thought not the best rated)
-Nice guys and good service (have answered every question professionally and some...)
-Convenient ( their factory is 100 miles from the proposed location and 10 miles from my hometown)
-I like their rim brush, overall format of the wash
-Not too thrilled about the auto pilot from the reviews on here.. I asked the guys over there and they said there were bugs in the beginning, but those have been worked out.
-Cheaper (not a selling point but still something to consider)
-One stop shop?

Macneil:
-People rant and rave about their equipment (I've noticed many guys who open a second wash tend to go with their equipment)
-Nice guys and good service
-4 side brush oppose to 2
-Canada....
-ICS computers


My question basically are..

Is MacNeil really that much better? Why exactly?

Even if MacNeil is the preferred brand, am I stupid to be considering anything except Sonny's since theyre that close? I've noticed majority of the florida car washes use Sonny's equipment.

Thanks in advance!

 

[dirty harry]

Both are very nice people; and both will provide a system that will get the job done. That being said, my opinion is that the MacNeil brand is a more "intelligent" piece of equipment, and enjoys a higher level of engineering that will ultimately provide you with a better wash experience. Good luck!

 

[Back4More]

I don't understand why you feel you are locked into Auto Pilot if you go with Sonnys?

 

[South FL Newbie]

Both are very nice people; and both will provide a system that will get the job done. That being said, my opinion is that the MacNeil brand is a more "intelligent" piece of equipment, and enjoys a higher level of engineering that will ultimately provide you with a better wash experience. Good luck!

Long term when things begin to break whats more important... Having the manufacturer 100 miles away or having more techy equipment.. That's whats stumping me at this point and to be quite frank, driving me crazy since its the heart of the business..

I'd also like to comment that the macneil mini basically cleans each panel twice since it hits the front and rear with each side brush then once again in the second set.

Any comment on how significant that is?


I also feel that sonny's pendulum wheel brush and tire shine machine could end up being trouble from the constant motion.. Any comments on that?


Thanks!

I don't understand why you feel you are locked into Auto Pilot if you go with Sonnys?

I just prefer to buy the entire system from one company so they can dial everything in properly from the beginning and theres only one person responsible if there are issues. In hopes to avoid the blame game in the future.

The problems with the Auto Pilot all seem to be when they were first released. I'm guessing they let the public do the testing instead of in house; not the greatest idea in such a small niche. They claim being 4-5 years later things have greatly improved and with the Hamilton HTK their system now rivals ICS.

Comments?


Thanks!

 

[Back4More]

Again, Sonny's sells other brand computer systems, so I don't see why you feel you have to go with Auto Pilot. Have you talked to them about that?

 

[JimmyJaffa]

We are in Florida and have MacNeil tunnel (140' express) and about 75% of our repair parts come from Sonny's (one day service). Infact, Sonny's has a special section of MacNeil replacement parts.
The MacNeil mini express tunnel has be around for 3 or more years.
Sonny's has better marketing then MacNeil (ie the mini tunnel, and or the time is right!).
The way the MacNeil equipment is designed, you will have fewer damage claims Vs. the Sonny's (not a lot, but it is a factor).
Do not be afraid to mix and match between vendors, not all of the components of any vendor is "the best" for your application. We use a lot of Sonny's equipment where we felt they were better for us.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The way the MacNeil equipment is designed, you will have fewer damage claims Vs. the Sonny's (not a lot, but it is a factor).

.

I am interested in specific reasons / examples behind this.

 

[JimmyJaffa]

For example, Earl go look and see how the foam is installed on MacNeil equipment. Much different then Sonny's or most of the equipment suppliers.

 

[dirty harry]

I've always been impressed with the RS-701 wraps and the way the double fold can be programmed with your computer. I've also been impressed with how well the MacNeil equipment ages under heavy volume.

 

[Earl Weiss]

For example, Earl go look and see how the foam is installed on MacNeil equipment. Much different then Sonny's or most of the equipment suppliers.

I will have to check this out, however I don't see how this affects the foam contact with the surface and / or damage claims. What type of damage does this prevent?

The only foam I am using is on an AVW top brush and hav changed from OEM foam (I amm not sure who AVWs supplier was) which was lasting 75K cars before shedding badly to an Erie replacement which had almost 300K cars with no noticible wear. It was discoloring so I changed it. Using a darker color now.

Luv the ads with yellow foam or cloth. Would like to see it after 100K cars unless it's like some of the European video where they seem to wash the entire care with HP prep guns before putting it thru the tunnel.

 

[wood]

i would agree with the macneil program. it's better equipment. nothing wrong with sonny's, but the engineering behind macneils makes it easier to operate. part replacement not expensive, and i too get many macneil parts from sonny's

the only thing you might be "stupid" (your word in start of post) about is getting into the business right about now. it sucks out there. slow volume all over the country, gas prices, economy are hurting our business. in addition, and perhaps the main culprit is the weather. just about all areas have been down from april-june. the weather over the last 3 + years has been inconsistent at best.

it's tough out there, don't build a taj mahal. unless your in california where they just wash 'em, don't spend 2.75 mil or more.

i'm not a negative guy, but these are challenging times.

good luck,
wood

 

[Earl Weiss]

i would agree with the macneil program. it's better equipment. nothing wrong with sonny's, but the engineering behind macneils makes it easier to operate. ,
wood

Can you be more specific? For instance I have mitters from Sherman, Beanger and AVW. The AVW mitters are by far the easiest to work on vis a vis replacing wearable parts. (And that seems to happen only once every ten tears or so.) The circular motion of the AVW mitter also makes it quieter than the front to back or side to side which has some slapping noise unless you go with a more expensive material..

That's the type of info I am looking foras to why some think McNeil has some advantagous.

 

[DavidM]

Earl, I'll take a shot at answering your questions about Macneil. Jimmy already mentioned the design of the foam. Over the last thirty years we have used filament, cloth, Neoglide, Macneil's envirosoft and we have an inbay with Wesumat/Mark 7 foam. The design of Macneil's significantly decreases the slapping on the car, it is very quiet when riding through the wash. Also, because the fingers are individual rather than webbed, like cloth or neoglide, they can move around mirrors and other items more easily.

The wraps are designed to decrease pressure on the vehicle around the mirror/antenna area. This allowed us to wash even the notorious Grand Am without breaking the mirror.

You specifically mentioned the mitters. I don't think Macneil even offers the mitter anymore, it has been replaced by the top brush. Macneil's top brush uses the same foam so it is quiet and gentle. Macneil also offers an auto retract for pickups so you don't have to rely on an attendant to retract.
I have heard some operators complain that top brushes still cause too much damage. When I ask about the type of top brush it is always a brand other than Macneil. Macneil operators tend to be quite satisfied with their top brush. We installed ours in 2002. I can't think of any damage outside of a power antenna caused by the top brush.

Like you, I would like to see what that yellow foam looks like after 100,000 cars. Hopefully this is the type of answer you are looking for. I am not a salesman. We have been using Macneil since 1994 and Sherman equipment before that.

David

 

[robert roman]

When evaluating conveyor equipment, I would focus on the stuff that really matters.

Wrap-arounds versus fully-articulating wraps

Old technology dryers versus high-tech dryers

Electric versus hydraulic drive conveyor

High-pressure wheels with spinners versus turbo-nozzles

Sonny's versus MacNiel tire shiner

Autopilot (Compuwash) versus ICS versus DRB

VFD or no VFD

Reclaim system or no reclaim

Corrosion warranty, pretty important if you are within 30 miles or so of the ocean

Warranty on parts and labor

Etc.

Being in South Florida, I would not suspect that service or technical support would be an issue with either brand.

When advising clients, I always suggest they give MacNiel a long, hard look because I believe you get a lot of benefit for the money.

Hope this helps.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you would elaborate on the following as noted that would be helpful:

When evaluating conveyor equipment, I would focus on the stuff that really matters.

Wrap-arounds versus fully-articulating wraps<<<

Which MFGR has which. AVW has what I call a "Pendalum Style" . My Belangers slide up and down the boom so they are not really articulating, And My Hodge wraps pivot on 2 arms which I guess is articualting with one arm at rest going across the tunnel and one going lengthwise. My favorites are the AVW due to simplicity. Hodge are the most durable. All elements on Steroids and the Belanger 2000 can follow well with some tweaking I did.


Old technology dryers versus high-tech dryers<<<

What is old / new? VFD? Gates on the intake? Something else?

Electric versus hydraulic drive conveyor<<<

Pros and cons? I am all hydraulic. The concept of an electric motor in the pit is a huge negative for me.

High-pressure wheels with spinners versus turbo-nozzles<<<

Pros and cons?

Sonny's versus MacNiel tire shiner<<

Pros and Cons?

Autopilot (Compuwash) versus ICS versus DRB<<

Pros and Cons?

 

[JimmyJaffa]

Each one of us wash a car different from others. Our own ways are the best way to wash a car. Its our own wow factor. For you your AVW mitters are the greatest. For me I would only have a top brush. you like strawberry, I like blueberry. From what I gather most of your washes were built by someone else, and you had to adapt within a fixed frame work. Building a wash from scratch is a lot different, the choices are endless, VFD's, softstarts, air gates, etc. etc.Autocashier, salesperson etc.. South Florida Newbie needs to make up his own mind. You and I will never be convinced, too old, too stubborn, too know it all (pretty much describes just about everyone in the car wash industry that I know!).

 

[Earl Weiss]

Each one of us wash a car different from others. Our own ways are the best way to wash a car. Its our own wow factor. For you your AVW mitters are the greatest. For me I would only have a top brush. you like strawberry, I like blueberry. From what I gather most of your washes were built by someone else, and you had to adapt within a fixed frame work. Building a wash from scratch is a lot different, the choices are endless, VFD's, softstarts, air gates, etc. etc.Autocashier, salesperson etc.. South Florida Newbie needs to make up his own mind. You and I will never be convinced, too old, too stubborn, too know it all (pretty much describes just about everyone in the car wash industry that I know!).

Yes, ask 5 Car Wash guys a question and get 10 opinions. Yes, each of my places was originaly equipped by someone else. But I have replaced tons of stuff as an owner for 24 years and before that as my family operated various locations based upon firsthand experience of what seemed to work well at each location. Often original impressions were wrong like when I saw the AVW conveyor had a wood middle track. Also did various tweaks and modifications to improve on the OEM configurations.

Have 2 places with top brushes. Clean great. Huge PITA for taxis with roof top ads and I have one place that washes a lot of these. Also, triple mitters are enough without a top brush and less headaches for pickups etc.

So, when someone says something is "better" I seek more info. With the AVW conveyor when the middle track wears, repairs are simple. With the mitters, they are quiet even with regular closth and the few moving wearable parts are easy to replace and need replacement infrequently.

I saw the Sonny's new (er) roller up configuration whch I though was genius. Don't know it has stood the test of time in actual practice.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I like the fact that everything except the conveyor itself, is electric.
.

Many moons ago we had all electric equipment. Now things have likely improved in 45 years, but I still recall headaches cause by having electric motors, conduits and connections in wet areas. Then the issue became making sure things were really dry and buttoned up tight when making repairs.

 

[RykoPro]

Ryko uses electric motors on every wash they make. Its all in the quality of cables, covers and motors. I have seen them last 15 +years. I like them because they are safer, cleaner and easier to work on.