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small claims advice, would love everyones opinion

BBE

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Small claims, would love everyones opinion

Customer has 2007 highlander, antenna breaks off. Our disclaimer sign clearly states "not responsible for antennas" and also another line that states "not responsible for vehicles 10 years or older" We explained this to her, and she is insistent that it is our fault. She filled out one of our incident reports and signed it, and the incident report that she signed clearly states the same that we "are not responsible for antennas" and "not responsible for vehicles 10 years or older"
I told her to turn it into her insurance and if they fell that it's my fault they'll reach out to me. This wasn't good enough. I offered to split the cost with her because she's been a customer for a long time. This wasn't good enough. The antenna broke off clean at the mount and the threads are still stuck inside of it. We told her we'll get a new antenna, and if we can get the threads out by drilling it out, we'll put the new antenna on and replace it for you. But if we can't get them out, it turns a 10 dollar fix into a 150 dollar fix, and we aren't willing to do that. We bought the new antenna, and my manager could not get the threads out by drilling out. She took it and had body shop do estimate. 120 dollars. She says she's taking us to small claims court if she doesn't hear from us by "x date" So I called her on the day she said that and I said fine I'll call the body shop and tell them to just fix it and send me the bill. So I did, and the bill came out to be about 150 bucks, but..whatever. So I send a check, and think all his well, and low and behold I get served and am due in small claims court she is seeking the estimate amount which was 120 bucks. I'm thinking like "ok...we're gonna fight about something I already paid for?"

So about a week later I see her come through one of my washes, and catch up with her and ask her if everything was taken care of on her highlander and she says yes. And I said great, was it taken care of to your standards and liking? She says yes. I said great, well then there's probably no need for us to meet in court eh? And she says well, no, I've got legal fees involved now too. And i said well that's on you, that was your decision to make a small claims. I spoke to you before you did that and told you that we would take care of it...and we did. She's claiming we didn't take care of it in a timely manner, and also that if we hadn't tried to drill out the old threads, she would have been able to have the body shop drill the threads out and replace just the antenna and not have to replace the base. I'm thinking what does it matter, you didn't end up paying for ANY of it? I did.

I talked to the body shop and asked them about this and they said no, we didn't do any further damage or anything to it. Sometimes you can get them out, sometimes you can't, and this one wasn't able to get the threads out, so they had to replace the base. Us trying to drill out the threads didn't cause any further damage or work, and didn't have anything to do with it.

The paperwork says she is seeking damages in the amount of the estimate...which is already paid for and fixed. But she says at the hearing she is going to now seek her legal fees to be paid for too.

Am I going to lose or not?
 

I.B. Washincars

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I would think a judge would laugh her out of court, possibly even fraud on her part. If she is indeed suing for the amount of the estimate, and you can prove you have already paid for it (signed affidavit from body shop or him appear in person), I would think a judge would actually be upset that you were even there. If you have documentation that you paid for repairing her car I can't picture any way you could lose. It would be worth going to court to see her humiliated.
 

Randy

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I think you made a couple of mistakes. As far as we are concerned there is no such thing as a long standing customer, a longtime customer will turn on you just as fast as a customer who just used your car wash for the first time. Once she signed the “incident report” and acknowledged that the vehicle was over 10 years old that should have been the end of it. But then you went ahead and paid for the damages, by doing that you’re accepting responsibility for the damages. Since you’ve paid for the damages and the repaired her antenna the case should be closed. Why she would have legal fees I don’t know unless she’s talked to an attorney. Every time we’ve been to small claims court the court has called beforehand and does everything humanly possible to get the two parties to come to an agreement so they don’t have to appear before the judge. Let this be a learning experience, once they sign and acknowledge that you do not cover antennas or vehicles over 10 years that should be the end of it, period. In the future I would circle the section in your incident report talks about not covering antennas and vehicles that are over 10 years old, I would have the customer sign incident report, initial the area circled and give them a copy. Over the years we’ve told many customers their not welcome at any of our facilities any longer for one reason or another.
 

Eric H

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Hope she doesn't sue for loss of consortium as a result of stress and anxiety too
 

Roz

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None of us are lawyers however I do not think you can sue for lawyer's fees especially if the situation was resolved before the lawyer was involved. Personally I would tell the *former* customer that after she loses the case you will be forced to sue her for your legal fees. That might get her to see common sense. I would also ask her to never return to your wash because of the trouble she caused. You do not need a customer as you described - the money is not worth the future risk.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/take-em-to-court-suing-in-small-claims-court
 

Ric

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After the judge rules in your favor, immediately ask if you can collect lost wages and mileage compensation from her since you had to take a half day off work and drive to court.
 

Earl Weiss

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There are all sorts of factors at work here.
#1. Laws vary from state to state so you may need to spend some Google time to see what applies in your state.
#2 . The General rule (see #1 above) i the "American Rule" which states parties are not entitled to claim legal fees unless a contract or statute provides for it.
#3. Do the court papers reflect the name of an attorney? If not it more likely #2 above applies.
#4. If your Business is a corporation or LLC you may be required to have an attorney represent you in court. Many places require a licensed attorney to represent "Someone" and a corp or LLC may be considered "Someone" as a legal entity.
#5. If a court finds a claim is made in bad faith they can award winning party legal fees. They are often reluctant to do this.
#6 . Future best practice my be to reimburse customer and above endorsement space and on check memo write "endorsement is acceptance of this check as full and final settlement of all claims - Caution DO NOT use such a casual release for injuries.
7. Free legal advice i worth what you pay for it.
 

Greg Pack

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I don't think you'll have a problem, but one thing I would do is tell her to go elsewhere I don't want anyone that unreasonable on my property.
 

mac

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Speaking of lawyers, I heard about a gunman taking a bunch hostage at some courthouse. He then presented a list of demands to the TV people, and threatened to release one lawyer per hour till his demands were met.
 

robert roman

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“Am I going to lose or not?”

It depends on how you can answer the following question; what caused the antenna to break?

For example, I read “….she is insistent that it is our fault.”

This means she believes the carwash equipment or an employee broke the antenna.

However, there is no cause and effect discussion in your comments (incident report?).

So, do you know what caused the damage?
 

madstack

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In her defense, Toyota antennas tend to loosen over time (Tacomas specifically). Loose antennas break at the thread from wraps or mitters. Someone should have caught this in the loading process as they will visibly wobble from the stop and go movement. Saving you from all this nonsense. That being said, for all the times that she's washed with no damage, I'd point to the "10 year" sign, give her a couple of free washes and send her on her way.
 

PaulLovesJamie

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I think you have a slam dunk win, I recommend you smile and let it go to the small claims court because the experience you gain by doing so is well worth the small amount of mental stress, and is also worth the tiny risk of what it will cost if you lose.
I would also tell her she is not welcome on any of my properties, and will be arrested for trespassing if she comes back. "The customer is always right" and "each customer is worth a lot of $" is ivory tower BS.

edit: btw, my 5 cent summary opinion of how I think the judge will view this: a) you were not liable to begin with. b) you paid for the repair anyway. c) She's now asking for $ for which she is not entitled (sort of blackmailing you with the threat of court imo) d) lady, go pound sand (stated more politely of course).
 

PaulLovesJamie

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Speaking of lawyers, I heard about a gunman taking a bunch hostage at some courthouse. He then presented a list of demands to the TV people, and threatened to release one lawyer per hour till his demands were met.
come on mac, we're waiting...
 

JMMUSTANG

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Beat her to the punch.
How about you take her to small claims court first for a full refund, cost of man hours trying to fix it (ask the body shop guy to come along) and defineately mental anguish��
 

Earl Weiss

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It is never cost effective to fight small claims but have taken several to conclusion, particularly state Farm abrogation claims since I feel I have a reputation to protect with regard to not causing damage or being responsible. For larger amounts I have a check ready. For smaller amounts cash, and if I lose I ask the judge not to enter judgement because I will pay right then and there. Avoids credit dings if no judgement is entered.
 
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