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Question about chemical application order in a touch free

slash007

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I was reading a thread on Facebook that brought up an interesting idea and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. The idea was to apply Triple Foam after the 2 presoaks, then rinse them off together. Currently I apply 1st presoak, dwell, 2nd presoak, dwell, HP rinse, TF, then another HP rinse. If putting on TF after the 2nd presoak is an option, that would eliminate an HP rinse and speed up the wash and save $. Thoughts? I could use Low PH TF if I went that route.

Thanks.
 

MGSMN

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I've seen Ryko machines setup this way but still use TF Wax. It saves time, water and didn't seem to affect the TF Wax product. I like your idea of using Lo Ph TF Detergent though instead of TF Wax. I suspect your regular customers may notice the change and want the second HP rinse pass back. Let us know your results if you try this.

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sparkey

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I was reading a thread on Facebook that brought up an interesting idea and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. The idea was to apply Triple Foam after the 2 presoaks, then rinse them off together. Currently I apply 1st presoak, dwell, 2nd presoak, dwell, HP rinse, TF, then another HP rinse. If putting on TF after the 2nd presoak is an option, that would eliminate an HP rinse and speed up the wash and save $. Thoughts? I could use Low PH TF if I went that route.

Thanks.
I apply triple foam over the presoak. No issues at all. I use a low PH triple foam as well.
 

washnshine

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You might be eliminating a Hp pass but you will be increasing dwell time. And if you go hi ph presoak, low ph presoak, low ph TF, you will preserve the order of your ph level applications. Some washes use a medium pressure rinse after the sealer too.
 

slash007

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You might be eliminating a Hp pass but you will be increasing dwell time. And if you go hi ph presoak, low ph presoak, low ph TF, you will preserve the order of your ph level applications. Some washes use a medium pressure rinse after the sealer too.
I'm assuming you mean that dwell time is increasing, but that's a good thing? I currently apply low then Hi. Hi is setup to be stronger and go through the low. Would keeping it that way not work?
 

Waxman

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alot of the cleaning power in a touch free is accomplished during the high pressure passes I like the idea of layering the products on, but I don't think I'd drop an hp pass.
 

washnshine

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I'm assuming you mean that dwell time is increasing, but that's a good thing? I currently apply low then Hi. Hi is setup to be stronger and go through the low. Would keeping it that way not work?
Yes- generally speaking and to a certain point, increasing dwell time helps. Like everything else, there is a point where you stop getting a benefit, but I believe adding 30 seconds or so for the chemistry to work on the car will only benefit you.

High pressure passes are very important, but they only work on the oily film, bugs and other stubborn soils if the chemistry, dwell time and water conditions are right. Hitting a car with hp before your chemicals will loosen surface, non bonded soils, but then bonded stuff takes the work of the other factors.
 

slash007

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I currently have an HP pass right after the presoaks, then another after the TF, but the 2nd HP pass was only because a medium pass wasn't enough to wash all of the TF off. If I apply TF first, I would still follow with an HP pass after the presoaks and TF. I made a change and only offer TF on my top 2 washes now so that helps, but if I could save more time and water, that would be the goal. On those washes right after the TF+HP rinse I apply a sealant and then another rinse before finishing with spot free, so that should be enough rinsing, but I guess only experimenting will tell.
 

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We currently run our TF right after our 2nd low pressure soap pass. We then run a HP rinse and follow that with a HP wax. We changed this year and I think the added dwell time has helped. Only problem is now we need to find a way to purge those TF lines during cold weather. We currently run a Laserwash 4000 and they purge those lines during HP only.
 

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I use TF polish...it seems that wouldn't work laying it on top of my presoaks. Soap tech says polishes/sealants can lock-in dirt. Theory makes since, so I would prefer HP rinse before applying polish or wax/sealants. FYI...went to TF polish, instead of TF conditioner to decrease staining. I run Laser360.
 

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So I changed the top wash programming on my Razor to:

Low Ph Arch
Soaking
High Ph Arch
TF Conditioner Reverse
Soaking
HP Rinse Arch
FnF Forward
HP Drying Agent Arch
HP Sealant Arch
Spot Free Rinse Gantry Double Pass

Really didn't do a whole lot for speeding up the wash but customers sure did notice the change and telling me it's out of sequence.
 

slash007

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So I changed the top wash programming on my Razor to:

Low Ph Arch
Soaking
High Ph Arch
TF Conditioner Reverse
Soaking
HP Rinse Arch
FnF Forward
HP Drying Agent Arch
HP Sealant Arch
Spot Free Rinse Gantry Double Pass

Really didn't do a whole lot for speeding up the wash but customers sure did notice the change and telling me it's out of sequence.
No issues with FNF Forward? I worried doing that would not provide the same experience. How's cleaning with the setup?
 

DiamondWash

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No issues with FNF Forward? I worried doing that would not provide the same experience. How's cleaning with the setup?
Haven't seen any problems with cleaning, as for the FnF forward I too thought the experience isn't the same as when it's starting in the front of the vehicle I may add a forward HP Rinse conservation pass after the Hp Rinse Arch to have the Razor at the front again but then that adds an additional pass which I was trying to eliminate.
 

slash007

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I studied my setup and wasn't able to add TF right after the PH2 and have FNF start from the front, so I ended up leaving everything as is other than using constrict on the HP rinse pass after the TF.
 

DiamondWash

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You could get the arm to be back at the front if you did a fast double pass of TF set at 100 after the 2nd presoak pass.
 

slash007

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True, but my goal was to eliminate time and water. Guess that would still save some of both. Would be worth it if cleaning performance increases.
 

soonermajic

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You might be eliminating a Hp pass but you will be increasing dwell time. And if you go hi ph presoak, low ph presoak, low ph TF, you will preserve the order of your ph level applications. Some washes use a medium pressure rinse after the sealer too.
Do you compromise any cleaning by doing high ph PS, low ph PS, low ph 3x Foam, hp rinse.....? I'd think added dwell time would be great, but wasn't sure if you HAD TO HAVE the order of high ph PS then low ph PS....?
 

washnshine

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Do you compromise any cleaning by doing high ph PS, low ph PS, low ph 3x Foam, hp rinse.....? I'd think added dwell time would be great, but wasn't sure if you HAD TO HAVE the order of high ph PS then low ph PS....?
I’m certainly no expert, but judging by how we work in the “tunnel world” we usually hit the cars with high pH up front and then lower it as the car progresses through the wash process with lower pH soaps and polishes. . So in my mind, an application of high pH presoak, low pH presoak and then low pH polish would line up more with what I am familiar with. Of course, the touch free IBA’s rely solely on the chemistry to clean, so I can’t say if that is the best order to also attack all the different types of soils and dirt that every region has to deal with - in a TF. In the tunnel, we don’t have to be quite as reliant on that since we have the friction working for us as well.
 
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