Opinions on express waxing?

[Scrub Free]

I have a 2 bay touchfree and I want to offer a hand express wax.
This will be new to me so I don't know exactly what to offer or what to expect. So I had a few questions.
1. Do I use a spray on wipe off product such as maguires d15601?
2. Do I clean door jams or is that an upsell?
3. Tires and wheels an upsell also?
Thanks for your opinions

 

[washnshine]

I have a 2 bay touchfree and I want to offer a hand express wax.
This will be new to me so I don't know exactly what to offer or what to expect. So I had a few questions.
1. Do I use a spray on wipe off product such as maguires d15601?
2. Do I clean door jams or is that an upsell?
3. Tires and wheels an upsell also?
Thanks for your opinions

A few things to consider here:

1. Yes spray on/wipe off is the best way to go for an express product that is unscheduled. Something that can go on the windows too is best, so either by intention or accident, you have no problem with glass. Might want to sub title it "30 Days of Protection" or something like that.

If you will be doing this in an unprotected area - out in the open with no canopy or bay, you need a product that can be applied in the sun. Some are friendly that way, some are not.

2. Door jambs are typically associated with an interior detail/interior express detail and would probably be paired with a service like that. If you offer no interior services, then you can pair it with the express wax, but price it accordingly.

3. Tire shine and wheel treatment - definitely an upsell.

4. It would be smart to offer a "whole package discount," were you offer a slightly lower price if all of your services are purchased together - Like the wax, wheels and tires, jambs for $5 or $10 less than they would total if purchased separately. The amount of discount would be determined by your price points.

 

[Greg Pack]

Although I'm a huge fan of it for upkeep and wipedown post wash, I don't think that Meguiar's express synthetic wax would be a good perceived value. Its one step above a detail spray but I think the first TF wash will take it off. It does make the car feel slippery but I doubt it offers any extended protection. For a little more effort, you could put on a better more traditional wax product. Try Malco's flash wax. You must apply (it will spray on), allow to dry, and wipe off. It dries quickly and wipes off easy. It also has some cleaners in it, which touch free customers could probably benefit from. It probably take me ten minutes to use Meguiars express wax, I could use the malco probably in 15-20.

One advantage of the meguiars is you can use it on all surfaces: wheels, even glass if you're careful about streaking. I know some who even use it as an interior wipe down spray.

BTW, I'm not a commercial detailer, just an enthusiast.

 

[rph9168]

If you are doing it where customer can see the process I would recommend using a light duty wipe on product designed as a hand wax. A spray on wax would not look very professional.

 

[robert roman]

“I want to offer a hand express wax. This will be new to me so I don't know exactly what to offer or what to expect.”

Start at the beginning - demand.

As dual in-bay, assume volume is 30,000. Take rate at full-serve is 20 percent so demand would be 6,000 cars or roughly 20 cars a day or average of 2 an hour.

However, to avoid disappointing customers (i.e. long wait time), capacity should follow carwash. Carwash is designed to meet maximum hour.

Since maximum is as much as three times average, demand for wax might be as high as 6 cars for several hours a day during peak operating conditions.

Typical output for hand wax is 2 cars per man-hour (double if working in teams of two persons).

Since express is no appointment necessary, first-come first-served, figure staffing model to meet demand of one person all the time, two persons half the time and three on weekend.

Another consideration is the nature of the work. Full-serve and flex-serve clean with friction. However, “touchless” does not remove this film. So, wax needs to contain a “cleaner” or swirl marks will be created when wax is buffed.

I recommend Meguiar’s liquid cleaner wax. It can be applied to slightly wet car. It comes off as fast as it goes on, leaves behind absolutely no powder when removed with microfiber towel, and contains synthetic wax (polymer) so it holds up for 60 days and has wet look.

Since time is of essence with express, I would use a “spray and forget it” tire shine product.

I use Driver’s Choice (Greenbrier International, Inc.) $1.00 32 FL OZ bottle at dollar store.

Its water-based, leaves behind “dark satin finish” like brand new tire, blends into rims so no hand touch up needed, no sling and it helps prevent brake dust from sticking on rims.

Door jams are done last with the dirtiest of towels, not wax or window towels.

Hope this helps.

 

[Greg Pack]

Mr Roman, Interesting about the drivers choice product. Meguairs has a water based "hyper dressing" which can be diluted with water based on your desired sheen. At 4:1, it leaves a finish similar to what you describe. Its also good at that dilution for engine detailing. But your product is still half the price. I would be tempted to pour it into a professional sprayer though.

There are lots of good wipe on waxes that you can apply in full sun and come off easy. The malco flash is technically a wipe on product but the detailing supplier showed me that if you place it in a bottle it will spray. You just have to shake before applying. Stoner's spead bead is not bad either, but was much better before they changed the propellant. I have used both to remove film left after a TF wash.

 

[robert roman]

“I have used both to remove film left after a TF wash.”

Amazing how much dirt is left behind after touch-free wash isn’t it.

I’ve always viewed Malco Flash Wax and Stoner cans as more a detailer’s stable (shop) rather than product used at carwash.

Cans are neat but expensive and are solid waste. Flash is nice but I prefer products that don’t separate.

One reason I use M’s cleaner/wax is because Advanced is only five minutes away. I also use it because there is enough cleaner in it to remove light flashing from paint and rims (i.e. touch-less). It also helps to lube up headlight lens.

I no longer use the instant waxes (spray and wipe) because the express stuff is just too good.

While on subject, try this for windows.

After waxing, I finish by cleaning inside/outside windows with rain repellent windshield washing fluid (spray bottle) and kitchen tea towels (microfiber).

It’s amazing how well the windows come out streak free, even with smoker car.

 

[rph9168]

I have always used newspaper for streak free windows.

 

[washnshine]

I'll admit, I have no first hand experience offering an express wax service after a touch free wash, so I default to those who do.

The reason I thought a spray on product would be best in this situation because it would essentially wipe off the film left - similar to what a quick detailer or waterless wash will do without causing damage or swirls. The "spray on, wipe off in one direction" with a microfiber towel method is pretty surface friendly with light film - it is intended for "light touch ups" - similar to what might be left after a tf wash.

In my mind, the application of a liquid product that is generally applied with some type of foam applicator would have the effect of grinding in the film more before it is actually removed with the final towel wipe/buff. I understand the product recommended has a cleaner, but I thought the cleaners contained in waxes were for more deeply bonded contaminants - or the type that would generally need a clay or polish to be removed.

Surface film comes off easily - with touch, and I would think the film could be used as an abrasive against the paint with an improper wax technique/application.

I don't know - maybe you can go over the car with a quick detailer first - to remove the film - then you can use any product you'd like without any potential paint damage. I know it's time and money, but you want it done right and I'm sure you'll charge accordingly. Call it "wax prep" if you want - let your customers know they are getting it.

 

[robert roman]

“…..spray on product….best…..because it would essentially wipe off the film left - similar to what a quick detailer or waterless wash will do without causing damage or swirls.”

“…..application of a liquid product that is generally applied with….applicator would have the effect of grinding in the film more before it is actually removed with the final towel….”

Neither is necessarily true.

For example, active ingredient in one brand of waterless is alkyl polyglycoside (polymer) which is a mild, nonionic surfactant with good detergency and wetting properties. Other ingredients are plant derivatives.

Waterless lifts and emulsifies dirt and leaves behind a glaze that works like a wax.

Whereas cleaner wax like the one I mentioned contains synthetic wax (polymer) plus surfactant (cleaner).

Difference with cleaner wax compared to waterless or spray on wax is longevity (lasts longer), surface contact angle (beads water better) and it takes a bit longer.

I’ve been waxing cars since 1967. I certainly won’t suggest the wrong way to do it.

Happy New Year

 

[washnshine]

Difference with cleaner wax compared to waterless or spray on wax is longevity (lasts longer), surface contact angle (beads water better) and it takes a bit longer.

I’ve been waxing cars since 1967. I certainly won’t suggest the wrong way to do it.

Happy New Year

I have no doubt that a liquid cleaner wax lasts longer and is a better product than a spray wax - that is not the point. What I question is the physical disturbance that can occur when surface of a car with film on it is rubbed with an applicator that would be necessary to apply and spread a liquid wax.

In the friction world of car washing we always talk about the cleaning media being flushed with water and detergent to keep it clean and the water and detergent cushion that exists between the car and the wash media. If hand washing, we talk about the proper two-bucket method with only one wipe per panel before the mitt is rinsed clean.

It seems to me that applying a liquid wax product with a foam or microfiber applicator would trap the film between the applicator and finish, causing paint damage. Damage not that different from incorrectly hand washing an automobile. I guess that is why all the detailers I know perform a proper hand wash before any type of exterior detail.

Happy New Year to all.

 

[rph9168]

To me it depends on what type of program and result you want to have. Applying and removing a spray on wax takes less time and provides less protection. A wipe on and wipe off will take longer to do and should provide more longer lasting protection. You should be able to charge more for it. As far as scratching the surface I highly doubt either would cause a problem whether your wash is touch free or friction. I was involved in one of the first hand wax programs. We used a wipe on and wipe off wax that could be applied to a wet surface. It was very successful. One of the few problems occurred when the work was done so quickly that customers questioned the price of something that was done so quickly.

 

[washnshine]

Thanks rph9168.

 

[robert roman]

“What I question is the physical disturbance that can occur when surface of a car with film on it is rubbed with an applicator….”

This “disturbance” is necessary to exploit or break bond between dirt and vehicle surfaces (paint, rubber, metal, glass).

Start with dirty car.

“….friction world of car washing….we always…..flushed with water and detergent to keep it clean……water and detergent cushion….between the car and the wash media.”

That’s because conveyor is a continuous process where the equipment is arranged according to the steps necessary to clean, shine and protect vehicle surfaces.

Detergent and water applied first (reactivity) followed by friction to break physical bond and remove dirt.

Here, friction can include wash “material” or high-pressure water which is also a form of friction.

Brush detergent imparts lubricity to maximize material penetration and minimize possibility of wash material getting caught in cracks and crevices and it usually contains agents to help prevent dirt from re-depositing back on surface.

“If hand washing, we talk about the proper two-bucket method with only one wipe per panel before the mitt is rinsed clean.”

This is outmoded and inefficient as traditional full-service.

Conveyor hand carwashes operate similar to friction or hybrid conveyor except people are used to mitt cars instead of an automated multiple brush wash module.

Soapy cars are cleaned with soapy mitts top down, front to back as vehicles move by one by one. There is no time to wipe and rinse panels.

Professional hand washers (free-standing and mobile) usually begin by cleaning car with high-pressure water (with or without pre-soak injected) using self-serve spray wand.

Similarly, detailers do this to clean out wheel wells, door and trunk jams, moldings, mirror cavities, engine compartment.

“Damage not that different from incorrectly hand washing an automobile.”

Waterless can cause damage (paint marring) if car is too dirty. Waterless OEM’s agree on this and recommend rinsing car first is so dirty.

Marring is microscopic marks imparted on surface that cause paint to have lots of little swirls or lines in it and over time makes paint look dull.

If car has good coat of wax on it (mil), marring from improper wash can be avoided to some extent. Most marring is easily removed with cleaner wax or orbital buffer.

A car without a coat of wax is actually more susceptible to damage from intrusive chemicals than from improper friction washing.

So, after prepping for a conveyor wash or a detail job or completion of touch-less in-bay automatic wash a thin layer of film will remain on most surfaces.

Evidence is eyebrow on windshield.

Lifting or removing this film from paint can be accomplished several ways as discussed without marring the surface.

Consequently, my opinion for express wax method when wash process is touch-less.