not drying - water too soft?
- Thread starter JustClean
- Start date
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
The key is to have the surface pH on the acidic side before the drying agent is applied. Before I would kick up the drying agent I would check the surface pH before the dryer. You can do that with pH strips available at a pool store. I have even seen them in Walmart.
If the pH is over 8 I would go to high/low on my production chemicals and probably go to low pH conditioners. Since not all vehicles will be getting the conditioners it is important that you make the change in your production chemicals. If you still are having drying issues you might either adjust your drying agent slightly up or down if you think you are using too much or too little (check the manufacturer's recommendation for your drying agent) or try another one. Drying agents are the only production chemicals that have a window. They won't work well if there is too much or too little going on the vehicle.
If the pH is over 8 I would go to high/low on my production chemicals and probably go to low pH conditioners. Since not all vehicles will be getting the conditioners it is important that you make the change in your production chemicals. If you still are having drying issues you might either adjust your drying agent slightly up or down if you think you are using too much or too little (check the manufacturer's recommendation for your drying agent) or try another one. Drying agents are the only production chemicals that have a window. They won't work well if there is too much or too little going on the vehicle.
JustClean
Active member
I checked the PH on the car before the DA: PH6.
After the RO rinse: PH5.
I am still not really happy with the beading. I played around with more and less DA in the past. I haven't tried to rinse it with RO first and make the last pass the DA. Does that make sense or do I get spots? The DA is mixed with RO....
After the RO rinse: PH5.
I am still not really happy with the beading. I played around with more and less DA in the past. I haven't tried to rinse it with RO first and make the last pass the DA. Does that make sense or do I get spots? The DA is mixed with RO....
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DiamondWash
Well-known member
Not to be intrusive but who's chemical are you useing?
JustClean
Active member
I tried four different brands and the result is more or less the same. I feel it can't be the chemical suppliers since they all do the same: not beading.
Especially since wax and CDA are in different containers with different pumps. So this also means it can't be the pump. I am also smelling the wax when it gets on the car.
I have now changed the settings: Rinse first and then wax or CDA. No difference.
Hard water beads much better than soft or RO water since it creates more surface tension. Your pH is okay. What is the hardness of the water? I would also try to mix, apply and rinse your DA with your city water.
JustClean
Active member
Our city water is really soft and the hardness of the RO is not measurable.
So it seems the softness of the water...hmm...
JustClean
Active member
I mixed the city water with our spot free rinse water and drying improved. But now I am getting water marks if the drops are not removed. So I guess it is either a "wet-clean" or a "dry-spotty" car
. Maybe I have to get a DA that is especially formulated for soft water, if something like this existed.CFCW, what DA are you using to get a dry car?
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
I have used several different brands and they all essentially worked, it was just a matter of what concentration.
JustClean
Active member
I thought I give you a bit of an update on my mysterious drying problem. This is what I found out so far. We recycle the water. When I switch over to fresh water instead of using the recycled water I don't have a drying problem. It is all normal. If I switch back to recycled water the problem comes back slowly when water quality gets worse. Although I rinse the cars off with RO water there seems to be a relationship between using fresh and recycled water during the brushwash. Strange.
Greg Pack
Wash Weenie
What is the PH of the recycled water?
Do you add bleach to your recycled water?
Do you add bleach to your recycled water?
JustClean
Active member
The PH of the recycled water is 7.2 and the system injects chlorine into the water.
robert roman
Bob Roman
You can't get a dry car unless you first produce a clean car. Are you getting the film off the surface or does the vehicle just appear to be clean?
Try writing your name with your finger on the quarter panel of a freshly washed car. If you can read "see" the letters, the car isn't clean. If so, drying will be extremely difficult.
Try writing your name with your finger on the quarter panel of a freshly washed car. If you can read "see" the letters, the car isn't clean. If so, drying will be extremely difficult.
JustClean
Active member
When I do this only the oil of my skin leaves residues but the car is clean (thank God).
robert roman
Bob Roman
I thought I give you a bit of an update on my mysterious drying problem. This is what I found out so far. We recycle the water. When I switch over to fresh water instead of using the recycled water I don't have a drying problem. It is all normal. If I switch back to recycled water the problem comes back slowly when water quality gets worse. Although I rinse the cars off with RO water there seems to be a relationship between using fresh and recycled water during the brushwash. Strange
Nothing strange about it. Most reclaim systems will eliminate entrained oil but virtually all reclaim water contains some amount of emulsified oil, the amount of which will vary considerably depending on the quality of the reclaim system and type of processes employed. Generally speaking, as the level of emulsified oil in the product water rises, the likelihood of dirt being redeposited on the vehicle rises. Dirty "clean" vehicle equals difficult drying. Adding RO on top of a dirty vehicle will only make drying more difficult.
My question is why does the quality of the reclaim water become worse?
My guess is you have one of those little in-bay systems with a hydro-cyclone, two bag filters and two small (undersized) underground settling tanks. If so, what usually happens with these systems is that the tanks are not large enough to allow adequate precipitation of particles. Over time and as wash volume increases and/or the filth level of vehicles increases, the particle content and emulsified oil clogs up the bag filters. Once clogged, the water pressure tends to drop but, more importantly, the quality of the product water will degrade significantly.
Jerking around with chlorine and other band-aids solutions for reclaim problems usually just complicates matters.
My suggestion is to bring a reclaim expert to the site to analyze your situation and get to the root cause of the problem.
Nothing strange about it. Most reclaim systems will eliminate entrained oil but virtually all reclaim water contains some amount of emulsified oil, the amount of which will vary considerably depending on the quality of the reclaim system and type of processes employed. Generally speaking, as the level of emulsified oil in the product water rises, the likelihood of dirt being redeposited on the vehicle rises. Dirty "clean" vehicle equals difficult drying. Adding RO on top of a dirty vehicle will only make drying more difficult.
My question is why does the quality of the reclaim water become worse?
My guess is you have one of those little in-bay systems with a hydro-cyclone, two bag filters and two small (undersized) underground settling tanks. If so, what usually happens with these systems is that the tanks are not large enough to allow adequate precipitation of particles. Over time and as wash volume increases and/or the filth level of vehicles increases, the particle content and emulsified oil clogs up the bag filters. Once clogged, the water pressure tends to drop but, more importantly, the quality of the product water will degrade significantly.
Jerking around with chlorine and other band-aids solutions for reclaim problems usually just complicates matters.
My suggestion is to bring a reclaim expert to the site to analyze your situation and get to the root cause of the problem.
JustClean
Active member
Robert,
I really appreciate your explanation and it all makes sense.
I have a sand filter very similar to a swimming pool filter that does an automatic backwash, injects chlorine as well as a flocking agent, monitors and adjusts the PH level. In one of my other posts I asked about water loss / evaporation. I believe both issues are related...
Since our brush machine uses not much water combined with evaporation our recycle tanks are holding less and less water thus leaving a "recycle-concentrate" in the tank. Using this water creates the problem, as you mentioned. If I fill up the tank with fresh water it's working fine. I think the solution is a float valve that keeps the recycle tank always full...or using somehow more water.
If I eventually put in a second machine (touchless) and connected it to the recycle system it might solve the problem as well.
A big thank you to all for the help.
I really appreciate your explanation and it all makes sense.
I have a sand filter very similar to a swimming pool filter that does an automatic backwash, injects chlorine as well as a flocking agent, monitors and adjusts the PH level. In one of my other posts I asked about water loss / evaporation. I believe both issues are related...
Since our brush machine uses not much water combined with evaporation our recycle tanks are holding less and less water thus leaving a "recycle-concentrate" in the tank. Using this water creates the problem, as you mentioned. If I fill up the tank with fresh water it's working fine. I think the solution is a float valve that keeps the recycle tank always full...or using somehow more water.
If I eventually put in a second machine (touchless) and connected it to the recycle system it might solve the problem as well.
A big thank you to all for the help.
