My [non-foaming] foam brush...

[starion]

Recently, my wife and I acquired a 7 self-serve and 2 automatic bay car wash.

The previous owner had let it freeze and I have learned a lot about repairing things in a short amount of time. We re-opened the car wash about a week ago after it having been closed for a year. The car wash is now 4 years old total, so still pretty new.

Anyway, I have a few annoying little issues here and there. I am typing this with my yellow stained hands after futzing with the foaming brush stuff all day.

Our foaming brushes (in all bays) sputter a lot and seem to put out more liquid than foam.

As all the bays are doing this, I think I can safely eliminate the foam generators and focus more on the back-end.

I have verified that I have product flow, about 128:1 KO brand foaming brush product. There is a small motor that pumps the mixed product into a manifold which is then switched out to the brushes. It has some kind of a brass unloader thing, looks more like a pop-off valve.

My feeling is that there is too much water flow, causing the brushes to be runny instead of foamy. If I adjust the unloader too far, it seizes the motor.

It did work with proper amounts of foam about a week ago, but has reverted to this recently.

Any suggestions for a newbie?

 

[car washing systems inc]

Have you checked the foot valve in the chemical drum, if it was working fine a week ago i would start there.

 

[MEP001]

Definitely check the Hydrominder for proper flow and to see that it's shutting off completely and not leaking into the tank. Check or just replace the foot valve, and make sure there is a small hole in the discharge hose of the Hydrominder above the water level so if the foot valve does go bad it can't siphon water back into the concentrate. Check the orifice to make sure it's not clogged. Check your water to make sure it's still soft.

 

[Dirt]

I'm thinking the 128:1 thing.sounds like not enough product to me.

 

[Fatboy769]

I'm thinking the 128:1 thing.sounds like not enough product to me.

I agree. I hooked up some KO foam brush soap a while back and had the same results your talking about at a 90:1 ratio. Good color and smell, but no foam.

 

[starion]

Just going by what was on the label....but hey, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

A side note here....the guy who supplies our KO product suggested that whatever size flow restrictor we had in there, we should raise it up by 2 sizes. When I pulled apart the HydroMinder there was NO restrictor at all (previous owner), it was running at full strength.

We put a 120 or 128 to 1 in there and the foam seemed to be just as good, so we didn't mess with it further, until today. I will try some other sizes and see what happens.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If it was working good and you didn't change anything then th edilution ratio was fine. Perhaps the hydrominder tip is clogged or not sucking for another reason. as some suggested the foot valve is bad. simple to check to see if liquid is draining back thru the foot valve and check the tip to make sure it's sucking. Also make sure i does not look like the volume in the soap barrel is increasing. You could be siphoning water back into it , diluting it.

Report back.

 

[pcb]

Also, keep in mind that dilution ratio is at water viscosity. So, if you have a thicker soap your trying to mix it may not be as strong as it should.

 

[starion]

Problem solved!

Tried different dilution ratios, no change. Foot valve was good. Even tried no dilution, no change. Tried different air pressures from 20 to 60 lbs.

My original theory was correct, too much flow. I had mentioned that turning the unloader adjustment on the pump too far would cause the motor to stall out. Well, stupid me, I don't know why I didn't go the other direction.

I had noticed that when it wasn't working, my pressure was around 100 lbs. on the product manifold. Turning the unloader the OTHER WAY brought it down and I find that at 50 lbs. of product and 60 lbs. of air, it makes great foam and at 240:1 !

So now the question is: what constitutes "good" foam from the foaming brush? I have heard varying opinions from about 12 people/customers from "runny" to "shaving cream" consistency.

Now on to my triple foam which is doing the same thing the foaming brush was...

 

[MEP001]

I like lots of foam, and I try to keep it a little on the wet side. The head hangs on the wall about 7' up, and when it's running there's a "plop" of foam always falling (One is letting go from the head before the last one has hit the floor). I do it this way because people will scrub a dry car with the foam brush, and I figure I might as well set it where they can, plus they spend more to rinse off all the foam. One person has said something about "too much foam," but when I explained about customers using it on a dry car he agreed.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I usualy run 40 PSI product and 10-20 PSI air for foam. KR is at 700-900 to 1 dilution.
You may want to try cutting the pressures in half. In this instance pressure affects volume, and trying to put too much volume thru a given area can hurt the foam as you found. Sometimes less is more.

Drier foam is better for you. Harder to rinse off. People tend to like this shaving cream type foam since it looks like it's more soap but it may really be more air.