low pH body soap in short tunnel

[washnshine]

I operate a short tunnel - 1 overhead wheel, 1 set of wraps, 1 set of rockers - all foam, except for cloth on the rockers. I use a neutral body and lubricating soap and have good results cleaning and drying - no quality issues at this time. We do manually prep with a higher pH solution for bugs on the front ends.

I've read that low pH wash detergents can be advantageous and are designed for a shorter wash. What advantages could I expect from using this type of detergent versus a neutral detergent?

My foaming polish and protectant are neutral as well - only thing that is not is the wheel cleaner.

Thanks.

 

[Ric]

Low ph is easier to rinse.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I use Low PH as the Pre Soak and in the water feed to all friction equipment. Use a less expensive foaming product for show.

drying agent works better with the Low PH Product.

 

[robert roman]

“What advantages could I expect from using this type of detergent (acidic cleaner) versus a neutral detergent?”

If you have “no quality issues at this time,” there would be no advantage unless an acidic cleaner cost less per application.

The detergent properties of high, low and neutral pH cleaners is due to dissociation hydrolysis – water added to substance causes both substance and water molecule to split into two parts.

Two phase cleaning, base followed acid is recommended for touch-less wash process to remove oil and mineral-based dirt over a broad range of environmental conditions.

The heat of neutralization produced from combining base and acid increases the reactivity of the detergent.

You don’t need this because you have friction to remove dirt.

A common wash process for 5-touch system is strong alkaline followed by neutral lubricating soap, drying agent and setting rinse of spot-free water. The drying agent is usually pH neutral (6) containing detergent range solvent and mineral seal oil.

After cleaning is done, chemistry used is designed to shine (tri-foam) and protect (i.e. rain-repel, hot wax) vehicles. The pH of these products may be low, high or neutral.

For example, rain-repel is low pH (1.5) and active ingredient is alcohols. Hot wax is high pH (8) and contains surfactants and wax.

Drying is not an issue because these products impart hydrophobic properties (very high surface contact angle) on surfaces.

 

[sudsurfer]

We also have a short tunnel and have a rinsing problem. We use hi ph for first presoak, and low ph for second presoak.

 

[robert roman]

“We also have a short tunnel and have a rinsing problem.”

This statement is too broad to address without more information.

For example, what is the rinsing problem?

Are there too many bubbles present after rinsing?

Are you getting water spots after drying car?

Are you not getting a real dry car?

 

[washnshine]

I use Low PH as the Pre Soak and in the water feed to all friction equipment. Use a less expensive foaming product for show.

drying agent works better with the Low PH Product.

Earl,

Thanks for the info.

With a low pH presoak and low pH feeding the friction equipment as well, where in the tunnel do you apply the foaming product for show?

 

[Earl Weiss]

First is Pre Soak. After that Bubbler and foam Soap "Stick(s)

See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a7Vnh4dypI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ8z5Klq2W4

 

[sudsurfer]

Are there too many bubbles present after rinsing?

Are you getting water spots after drying car?

Are you not getting a real dry car?[/QUOTE]

The answer is yes to all 3. We apply a hi ph pre-soak, triple foam conditioner, then a low ph . Fresh water rinse, then setting arch then r/o. Cars do not rinse well, and leave white spots.

 

[robert roman]

“The answer is yes to all 3. We apply a hi ph pre-soak, triple foam conditioner, then a low pH. Fresh water rinse, then setting arch then r/o. Cars do not rinse well, and leave white spots.”

I would start with alkaline (pH 13), contains caustic soda, detergent range solvent and chelating agent to dissolve limescale and prevent scaling.

I would follow this with tri-foam (pH 2.5). Yes, apply tri-foam on top of pre-soak. This creates heat of neutralization (high + low pH) and helps save lineal space in tunnel.

Next, apply detergent (pH 8) on brushes that contains detergent range solvent

Next, flood arch as pre-rinse (low or medium pressure)

Next, arch for super-hydrophobic product (i.e. rain repel or hot wax)

Next, rain arch for drying agent (pH 6), only for vehicles not getting super-hydrophobic

Next, rain arch with mirror attachments for spot-free rinse

Hard problem to solve online, so I hope this helps.

 

[Greg Pack]

A general rule of thumb is the lower the ph of the cleaning products of your wash, the drier your cars are going to be.

Here's a simple way to understand the roles the various ph products play in the wash process, assuming you're not using terribly dangerous products. Stick your hands in your presoak solution. Now, pull them out and rinse them under plain rinse water. Your hands likely still feel very "slimy", don't they? That alkaline film that gives your hands that slimy feel also resides on the vehicle surface, and I believe impairs the effective bonding of CCP products to the car. Now, take your slimy hands and dunk them in your low ph product. If the product is strong enough, the slimy feeling goes away. Getting that alkalinity off the car is going to be a major improvement in drying and shining/reflectivity. It starts with using a alkaline product not stronger then necessary at the start of the wash, so dial back the strength there as far as you can without impairing cleaning.

Although I frequently see chemical salesman refer to the heat of neutralization, I can't find any meaningful amount of heat created by mixing together two opposing ph cleaning products. I just focused on getting the alkalinity off the car by using lower ph products and also minimizing foam towards the end of the wash.