Low PH and high PH

[copperglobe]

I ask this question every few years to see if times have changed:

Do you apply low PH then high PH

or

Do you apply high PH then low PH

?

 

[washnshine]

I ask this question every few years to see if times have changed:

Do you apply low PH then high PH

or

Do you apply high PH then low PH

?

Yes.

See, the answer has not changed!

Seriously- people do it both ways and some only apply high pH. Depends on what works in your climate and what the rest of your Wash process is like.

 

[Monte]

I'm in Oregon....we apparently have a tough environment for touchfree. We use low, 5s dwell...then high, 20s dwell as our "winter" setup. Been working good.

 

[Jim64]

So do you rinse between the 2 or stack them on each other?

 

[Monte]

Actually, it's critical that you don't rinse between the low and high pH. My understanding is they each work on different compounds (organic/inorganic)....but also work together to release components on the car.

My summer program is no dwell after low pH, 12-15 second dwell after high pH, speed up high pressure rinse ( except on nose and tail)

 

[Roz]

Car Wash Chemistry – High vs. Low pH Presoak

Car wash chemistry – high vs. low pH presoak Car washing might seem like a relatively straightforward affair, but when you look at the chemistry involved it is incredibly complex.

carwash-soap.com

 

[Roz]

My understanding is that for the Hi PH you need to apply almost twice amount of the Lo PH so it overcomes or neutralizes the Lo and then cleans. That is our approach which gives the customer a good show too. We dwell between PH passes too.

 

[Bricks]

Actually, it's critical that you don't rinse between the low and high pH. My understanding is they each work on different compounds (organic/inorganic)....but also work together to release components on the car.

My summer program is no dwell after low pH, 12-15 second dwell after high pH, speed up high pressure rinse ( except on nose and tail)

How many years of trial and error did it take you to figure this out? I am losing my mind trying to get cars clean. I constantly change passes and speeds. When you apply low ph, is it straight out of a hydrominder tank ? Mine is applied through the high pressure pass, like 30gpm of water mixed with a trickle of SSA detergent (low ph). The high ph has its own tank and pump. I’m thinking about eliminating the Rainx and using that setup for a low pressure, low ph pass. I’m using ceramic coat where the clear coat protectant used to be and I’m not sure the Rainx is very effective, or perhaps I’m not applying it properly either.

 

[soonermajic]

I have always heard hi ph, & then lo ph, in Okla & Texas...

 

[washnshine]

How many years of trial and error did it take you to figure this out? I am losing my mind trying to get cars clean. I constantly change passes and speeds. When you apply low ph, is it straight out of a hydrominder tank ? Mine is applied through the high pressure pass, like 30gpm of water mixed with a trickle of SSA detergent (low ph). The high ph has its own tank and pump. I’m thinking about eliminating the Rainx and using that setup for a low pressure, low ph pass. I’m using ceramic coat where the clear coat protectant used to be and I’m not sure the Rainx is very effective, or perhaps I’m not applying it properly either.

I don’t think you will get much cleaning power out of applying either high or low pH solutions in a high pressure cycle. They will be much too diluted. They both need to be applied at low pressure and rinsed with high pressure.

A good ceramic chemical is all you need. Applying Rain -X won’t add anything to your cars if they are getting ceramic. If the only way your machine will allow you to get a second low pressure cycle that you can run your low pH chemical through is to use your separate Rain-X tank, you should do it. That is essential for proper two- step cleaning, but again putting Rain -X on with ceramic really adds nothing.

What machine do you have? I thought most are set up for two separate low pressure presoak cycles.

Good luck.

 

[Bricks]

I don’t think you will get much cleaning power out of applying either high or low pH solutions in a high pressure cycle. They will be much too diluted. They both need to be applied at low pressure and rinsed with high pressure.

A good ceramic chemical is all you need. Applying Rain -X won’t add anything to your cars if they are getting ceramic. If the only way your machine will allow you to get a second low pressure cycle that you can run your low pH chemical through is to use your separate Rain-X tank, you should do it. That is essential for proper two- step cleaning, but again putting Rain -X on with ceramic really adds nothing.

What machine do you have? I thought most are set up for two separate low pressure presoak cycles.

Good luck.

Futura SSA. The Rainx is delivered via a flojet pump. Do you think that pump will handle the low ph? That stuff is nasty. I’ll need to make a new sign as my top package is $11, $2 higher only because of Rainx. I’m not sure how to go about it.

 

[washnshine]

Futura SSA. The Rainx is delivered via a flojet pump. Do you think that pump will handle the low ph? That stuff is nasty. I’ll need to make a new sign as my top package is $11, $2 higher only because of Rainx. I’m not sure how to go about it.

So the SSA does not have a two step presoak option? I’m not familiar with the rain x delivery system / maybe o the Dr operators can comment on if that will handle your low pH product. You may have to change your sign if you don’t use rain x , but your quality will be fine with a good ceramic.

 

[Greg Pack]

I do super strong hi followed by a low. I'm in the South. The only low that I have seen do most anything contains HF. I'm not willing to use that over the longer term because it's so rough on everything. It seems to me that most operators that prefer low/high are mostly in the snowbelt. I would think low first would be very effective on mineral based road salts but I have no experience.

Many operators do high/high. This simplifies the process and is a little more forgiving to the operator who is not diligent with titration. I think a strong high followed by a weak high is more effective than two "medium strength" highs. I'll try to explain that better: lets say you have two high passes back-to-back. I would rather put the first high pass on at 50:1 and the second high pass on at 100:1 than put both highs at 75:1. Both processes in theory would use the same amount of product. But the stronger first pass has a better chance of breaking the bond and the the second weaker pass doesn't really interfere with that process. You can also eliminate any dwell at the end of your second pass, saving a little time. The only downside is the residual alkalinity which supposedly will results in a car that doesn't dry as well. You would benefit from a low ph tri color to help with that but you may be using that to apply a polish product.

As far as ceramic vs rain repellents- That's going to a question for your chemical supplier. My supplier sells a ceramic product that offers superior shine and smooth feel to the surface, but it doesn't offer the long term protection that the rain repellent product will. Durability might not be a good thing right now anyway. If you don't get the surface clean you can possibly sealing in that road film by putting a durable protectant on top.

 

[Greg Pack]

Futura SSA. The Rainx is delivered via a flojet pump. Do you think that pump will handle the low ph? That stuff is nasty. I’ll need to make a new sign as my top package is $11, $2 higher only because of Rainx. I’m not sure how to go about it.

A flojet with viton seals will last quite a while. However, I would probably prefer to add a second presoak pump if there is a controller output to support it and apply the product through the presoak arch by teeing the two presoak lines together close to the arch. You could use the high pressure to apply a low ph wash solution with the purpose of killing alkalinity, or use as a high pressure wax.

 

[Bricks]

I do super strong hi followed by a low. I'm in the South. The only low that I have seen do most anything contains HF. I'm not willing to use that over the longer term because it's so rough on everything. It seems to me that most operators that prefer low/high are mostly in the snowbelt. I would think low first would be very effective on mineral based road salts but I have no experience.

Many operators do high/high. This simplifies the process and is a little more forgiving to the operator who is not diligent with titration. I think a strong high followed by a weak high is more effective than two "medium strength" highs. I'll try to explain that better: lets say you have two high passes back-to-back. I would rather put the first high pass on at 50:1 and the second high pass on at 100:1 than put both highs at 75:1. Both processes in theory would use the same amount of product. But the stronger first pass has a better chance of breaking the bond and the the second weaker pass doesn't really interfere with that process. You can also eliminate any dwell at the end of your second pass, saving a little time. The only downside is the residual alkalinity which supposedly will results in a car that doesn't dry as well. You would benefit from a low ph tri color to help with that but you may be using that to apply a polish product.

As far as ceramic vs rain repellents- That's going to a question for your chemical supplier. My supplier sells a ceramic product that offers superior shine and smooth feel to the surface, but it doesn't offer the long term protection that the rain repellent product will. Durability might not be a good thing right now anyway. If you don't get the surface clean you can possibly sealing in that road film by putting a durable protectant on top.

Thanks! This is great information. The cars look worse now that I’ve hooked everything back up that the previous owner disconnected. The foot valve wasn’t in the Rainx. The wires to the hp detergent solenoid were unhooked. The hydrominder wasn’t pulling any clear coat protectant. And the presoak was watered down. I’m wasting a lot of money on chemicals that are possibly, like you suggested, sealing in dirt.

 

[FreechnKeast]

Hi guys, thanks!!

 

[Zal]

Call your supplier in to tune your process. You need hands on help. If he wont help then buy your chems from kleen rite. They will provide an excellent chem guy for phone support. (And save money)