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Lo ph and Flash Drying
- Thread starter br549ms
- Start date
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
jfmoran
Active member
Are you rinsing with soft water prior to the flash drying? If so, that could be your problem. It's best to have a surface of Lo PH or neutral prior to going into the blowers, if you're not getting a good rinse with the soft water that will impede beading of the water and make it harder to dry the vehicle.
Are you using a drying agent?
robert roman
Bob Roman
First, forget about triple foam because it usually has little influence on drying unless there is excessive foam.
Next, what kind of wax are you referring to? For example, if its drying agent and you are following it up with rain repellent it’s a waste of drying agent.
Most repellent products I’m familiar with are acidic (3 to 5 pH) which promotes free rinsing, and most products impart surface contact angle of at least 100 degrees (far greater than drying agent) so beading up should not be an issue.
If beading up is an issue, you may not be getting all the grime off surfaces or you may be putting on too much water.
It’s tough to solve drying issues without being there.
Next, what kind of wax are you referring to? For example, if its drying agent and you are following it up with rain repellent it’s a waste of drying agent.
Most repellent products I’m familiar with are acidic (3 to 5 pH) which promotes free rinsing, and most products impart surface contact angle of at least 100 degrees (far greater than drying agent) so beading up should not be an issue.
If beading up is an issue, you may not be getting all the grime off surfaces or you may be putting on too much water.
It’s tough to solve drying issues without being there.
br549ms
Member
yes, I use a drying agent, have tried it with several different tips (rates) no luck. By very soft, I am referring to city water. we have softest water in state. I have a high pressure reclaim rinse, then dying agent, then city water rinse and finally a RO rinse.
I also have spotting where water is left on vehicles
the TDS of my output RO is "3"
I also have spotting where water is left on vehicles
the TDS of my output RO is "3"
br549ms
Member
I only use the repel on higher wash packages without drying agent, I use drying agent on lower cost washes. however it does not matter I still leave about same amount of water and still have spotting.
My original post is specifically asking how do you achieve a lo ph car before drying kicks in? I see post all the time referring to lo ph car before drying.
My original post is specifically asking how do you achieve a lo ph car before drying kicks in? I see post all the time referring to lo ph car before drying.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“I have a high pressure reclaim rinse, then dying agent, then city water rinse and finally a RO rinse.…I also have spotting where water is left on vehicles….”
Using reclaim for high pressure prep, curtains and wraps, and high pressure wheels is OK, but I would not recommend using reclaim water under high pressure to rinse cars before waxing and drying.
Basically, you clean the car and then put tons of reclaim water on that contains emulsified oil, etc. that re-deposits dirt (spotting) back on to the surface which makes drying more difficult.
So, I might try switching high pressure reclaim to normal tap pressure. If that doesn’t work, then check results with high pressure reclaim rinse shut off.
If that helps, then I would examine quality of reclaim. It simply may not be good enough to promote free rinsing and drying.
“My original post is specifically asking how do you achieve a lo ph car before drying kicks in? I see post all the time referring to lo ph car before drying.”
There are lots of posts about pH. Some people know what they are talking about and others do not.
Like many things about carwash balance is a key.
For example, to get a dry car, you must first get a clean car.
So, if reclaim is allowing too much dirt to redeposit on vehicles, I don’t care what pH is present at final rinse you will have spots and trouble getting a dry car.
Exception is when products like rain repel, hot wax, etc. are used. Here, surface is treated with polymers and wax that impart very strong and long lasting hydrophobic effect. These products are acidic (low pH) meaning they would help neutralize alkaline soap (high pH).
Since spotting is one of the characteristics, I’d bet the quality of the reclaim water is principal constraint preventing free rinsing and drying.
Using reclaim for high pressure prep, curtains and wraps, and high pressure wheels is OK, but I would not recommend using reclaim water under high pressure to rinse cars before waxing and drying.
Basically, you clean the car and then put tons of reclaim water on that contains emulsified oil, etc. that re-deposits dirt (spotting) back on to the surface which makes drying more difficult.
So, I might try switching high pressure reclaim to normal tap pressure. If that doesn’t work, then check results with high pressure reclaim rinse shut off.
If that helps, then I would examine quality of reclaim. It simply may not be good enough to promote free rinsing and drying.
“My original post is specifically asking how do you achieve a lo ph car before drying kicks in? I see post all the time referring to lo ph car before drying.”
There are lots of posts about pH. Some people know what they are talking about and others do not.
Like many things about carwash balance is a key.
For example, to get a dry car, you must first get a clean car.
So, if reclaim is allowing too much dirt to redeposit on vehicles, I don’t care what pH is present at final rinse you will have spots and trouble getting a dry car.
Exception is when products like rain repel, hot wax, etc. are used. Here, surface is treated with polymers and wax that impart very strong and long lasting hydrophobic effect. These products are acidic (low pH) meaning they would help neutralize alkaline soap (high pH).
Since spotting is one of the characteristics, I’d bet the quality of the reclaim water is principal constraint preventing free rinsing and drying.
Earl Weiss
Well-known member
Bob is correct . Unless you have some stellar purification system reclaim will kill the DA effects.
Unless you need to dump a ton of water on the vehicle for a rinse swap it out for fresh water or if you have room put fresh water rinse after the reclaim then DA. If that is not an option maybe you can inject some DA into the reclaim rinse to try an neutralize the effect before the DA.
Unless you need to dump a ton of water on the vehicle for a rinse swap it out for fresh water or if you have room put fresh water rinse after the reclaim then DA. If that is not an option maybe you can inject some DA into the reclaim rinse to try an neutralize the effect before the DA.
carwashireland
Active member
A really cheap way is to inject citric acid into the rinse water before the drying agent. Citric acid is cheap, safe and really works well for this type of application.
jfmoran
Active member
I am assuming you are using the high pressure rinse to remove the tri-foam from the car.
I had a tunnel with a similar setup, tri-foam, then high pressure rinse (using reclaim), then vehicle went thru a mitter that used RO reject water, next would be Rain-X, Drying agent and then RO rinse (we did not do flash drying).
Based on your setup explanation I would swap the position of the city water rinse and the drying agent: HP rinse, City Water Rinse, Drying Agent, RO Rinse. You want a clean car prior to putting any drying agent or RO water on it. If you're getting spotting it is because you are not flushing the car of all detergents, waxes, polishes, etc. prior to the drying process. With a TDS of 3 on your RO, that's well within the range of "Spot Free" so its not your RO water.
br549ms
Member
Thanks. I wish we could use city water on everything, but we have highest rates in state. I must use the reclaim to stay competitive. However, I did follow your advise and cut off the reclaim for the last three weeks. Still leaving spots, granted not as bad - I guess...
I do not flash dry, but I am in process of adding flash dryer. I am on a mission now and must figure it out.
Thanks for the help,
I do not flash dry, but I am in process of adding flash dryer. I am on a mission now and must figure it out.
Thanks for the help,
br549ms
Member
UPDATE on drying spot free
Update: we turned off the reclaim on the HP rinse arch (Hydra-Flex, Inc. - Blast-Tec nozzles) and spotting was reduced, but still had spotting after car was allowed to air dry. (City water at HP rinse arch followed by city water on rain arch, drying agent or Rain repellant, followed by Spot Free rinse)
Next we turned the HP rinse arch off all together and no spots after drying. Trying different angles of air at the TECH 21 dryers. Getting much closer to what we would like to see.
We are not currently using the reclaim on any of the chemicals, but would like to try - another post.
Update: we turned off the reclaim on the HP rinse arch (Hydra-Flex, Inc. - Blast-Tec nozzles) and spotting was reduced, but still had spotting after car was allowed to air dry. (City water at HP rinse arch followed by city water on rain arch, drying agent or Rain repellant, followed by Spot Free rinse)
Next we turned the HP rinse arch off all together and no spots after drying. Trying different angles of air at the TECH 21 dryers. Getting much closer to what we would like to see.
We are not currently using the reclaim on any of the chemicals, but would like to try - another post.
This citric acid idea is new to me.
Do you use a citric acid powder and mix it into a reserve water supply or do you purchase it in liquid form and inject it into a final rinse?
What ratio (ounces per gallon?) do you use per car?
carwashireland
Active member
Im use a liquid citric acid at a ratio of about 200:1. It does depend on the strength of the acid you get and the quality of the water you have. It is a case of try it, then turn up the strength until you get results.
I only use 1 producer as my flash dryer. I'm also considering moving another producer next to it and connect them both with one rectangular nozzle. I'll let you know when that happens.
