Interesting Islam info.

[pitzerwm]

I checked this with Snopes, and there is nothing about it. I understand that it is a mixture of facts and theory, but still worth reading and thinking about.

http://www.autocareforum.com/Islam.html

 

[mac]

There's a lot to be said in that. The last numbers I heard is that there are about 103 armed conflicts active in the world today. Of those, all but two have Muslims involved.

 

[phred113]

I can't wait for jcedwards and Doug to get on this. Though, it does sort of make jc's point if you go back and read his posts.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

Well again, you can point out that we armed most of these Nations or Armies. But let's skip that and get to my first point.

Most of you never read the Koran. I have at least read it. I read through it 2 or 3 times. I also studied theology to some extend and my mother has a degree in it and I know some about both Islam and the Bible. There are differance between the "culture" that can not be separated in Islam that we separate in Christianity. However in some Christian groups this is not entirely true and a push toward moving the "culture" into the religon is happening. This is also true with Juedism.

The religious beliefs do not allow for the daily life (culture & behavior) to separate. Prayer is involed routinely (most consider this "good"). Rituals, like hand washing (another "good habbit") also are brought into the daily routine as part of the religion. But this has been in many other religions and is not in Islam alnoe. As with Christianity, many of the practices are "borrowed" from other religions. The Koran has many of the same stories as the Torrah and the Old testement. It has the story of Zaccahariah, the Birth of John the Baptist, The Virgin birth of Jesus and Mary. So to say that Islam is unique in it's out look and Millitarization is farcical! What the hell was the Spanish Armada, The Spanish inqusition, the Conqusidors, the crusades? What were the Kahns or the Hunns, The Cretes or the Persians? More importantly what about those with no religion... the COMMUNIST? Have we replace or fears of nearly 60 years of cold war COMMUNIST now with ISLAMO-FASIST?

I think China is a bigger threat. If you have faith, than you have nothing to fear. If you are a true believer in Christ, he said you have nothing to fear. It will all play out as planned, if that is how it is to be. But I don't think I is.... It's BS. Some one is creating FEAR to make us a new enemy to sell more weapons to make more $$$$$$$$$$

 

[pitzerwm]

Well at least you didn't say that the information was all BS and my attempt to start the earth rotating in the other direction. I do agree with you on China, there is an interesting article in the June issue of Fast Company, about China's invasion into Africa. It also points out our contribution to Africa's problems. I will post a link as soon as they put it up on their site.

If you have faith, than you have nothing to fear. If you are a true believer in Christ, he said you have nothing to fear.

The Christians fed to the lions probably had faith. The meek shall inherit the earth??? I would disagree with that theory.

Maybe with your knowledge of Islam, you could help Obama with his trips to the Middle East.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

Well at least you didn't say that the information was all BS and my attempt to start the earth rotating in the other direction. I do agree with you on China, there is an interesting article in the June issue of Fast Company, about China's invasion into Africa. It also points out our contribution to Africa's problems. I will post a link as soon as they put it up on their site.

If you have faith, than you have nothing to fear. If you are a true believer in Christ, he said you have nothing to fear.

The Christians fed to the lions probably had faith. The meek shall inherit the earth??? I would disagree with that theory.

Maybe with your knowledge of Islam, you could help Obama with his trips to the Middle East.

Bill, It is precisely because the Christians went WILLINGLY to the lions and to the Gladiators that Christianity spread. Had they not done so, Christianity most likely would not exist today.... a Constintine would not have commissioned the Bible at Nieca to consoladate his power over Rome in 345 (or there about). It is also for this reason I said in the past not to make this war one of RELIGION (us against them) and BTW has anyone seen "CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR"? Christians were the first myrtrs... now the Islamo-fasist are to be feared? No... we will create our own monster in them... we armed them, trained them, stired them up and filled them with hate and gave them targets....and training in Iraq. SO like the early Christians going willingly to their deaths in the collisieum.... the Islamist will too! If we choose to elivate it to this kind of level.

Obama doesn't need my help.... he led the Christian opening prayer daily in Illinois St house for almost 10 years!

 

[pitzerwm]

Doug, you never cease to amaze me with your logic and "knowledge". I must admit that I allow you to continue to post because I have been told that the Forum needs a little controversy. I assume and applaud your entrepreneurial success, but for the life of me I don't have a clue how you pulled it off with your anti-capitalistic attitude and thought process. Your religious views are none of my business as long as you are not trying to shove them down our throats.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

Doug, you never cease to amaze me with your logic and "knowledge". I must admit that I allow you to continue to post because I have been told that the Forum needs a little controversy. I assume and applaud your entrepreneurial success, but for the life of me I don't have a clue how you pulled it off with your anti-capitalistic attitude and thought process. Your religious views are none of my business as long as you are not trying to shove them down our throats.

Bill, I'm not shoving anything down anyones throat. You and anyone here can believe in any God or no God at all. But I ask that you know your history! This is FACTUAL...Why Christians exist today is because early Christian myrtred themselves... as Christ did on the cross. Emperor Constitine saw this as an opprotunity, as Rome was being torn appart between Christian's growing in ranks, Romans and other faiths (because they brought slaves back from all corners of the World and let them practice there religions).

If you don't believe me look it up. The Conference of Neica. Without it... most likely Christianity would never had survived this long (we would not have the Bible).

 

[pitzerwm]

The Christians might have been martyrs, but I doubt if many willing went to their deaths. Sometimes being a martyr works and many times it doesn't, David Koresh & Jim Jones comes to the immediate mind. Your logic on many subjects still defies comprehension. I could be wrong, but I think that it was the self destruction by the Romans themselves and the Huns rather than the Christians that brought Rome down.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

The Christians might have been martyrs, but I doubt if many willing went to their deaths. Sometimes being a martyr works and many times it doesn't, David Koresh & Jim Jones comes to the immediate mind. Your logic on many subjects still defies comprehension. I could be wrong, but I think that it was the self destruction by the Romans themselves and the Huns rather than the Christians that brought Rome down.

I don't know if Jim Jones or David Koresh quailify as myrtrs? They may have been cult leaders and one was a mass murderer who commited suicide. Jones... not a myrtr. David Koresh... maybe to some a myrtr. However Christ definatly was a myrtr who allowed himself to be put to death.... and thus Christianity came about. The "persicution" of early Christians through myrtrdom spread Christianity in the Roman empire and it eventually threatened to tear Rome apart as divisions arose between the groups of Christians. If you don't go "willingly to your death or suffer for your cause".... you can't be a myrtr! In the case for the Christians.... it worked and we know it did because Christianity is still aroud today and the Bible is the best know book of all time.

martyr
noun
One who takes action according to his religious beliefs accepting that he will be killed by others; one who is put to death for his religion; as, Stephen was the first Christian .
Hence, one who sacrifices his life, his station, or what is of great value to him, for the sake of principle or to sustain a cause.
(with a prepositional phrase of cause) One who suffers greatly.

 

[jcedwards]

Much like Alfred Nobel, I believe the inventors of Christianity and Islam doctrines, fables and dogmas had peaceful intentions. Modern day followers of Islam have perverted the 'teachings' into a monolithic force that accounts for a disproportionate amount of distress in societies not indoctrinated in the ways of Islam. The unfortunate result is conflict between the appeasers of difference in each society and the those that cling to their culture and ways. Islam will likely prevail because there is no compromise within ranks. Death is your only path of resistance. At least Christians have watered-down their religion to a point you take what you want with no earthly penalty for violation.

Remember: In a compromise between food and poison, only death can win. Think about this when we as a society start 'accommodating' Islamists and their ways.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

If you have faith, than you have nothing to fear. If you are a true believer in Christ, he said you have nothing to fear.

The Christians fed to the lions probably had faith. The meek shall inherit the earth??? I would disagree with that theory.

Bill, Christ said "Blessed be the meek" in the sermon on the Mount In Mathew 5:5. This had nothing to do with being fed to Lions... but being quiet (I guess I'm out of the will!). In Mathew 5:10 he said "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of rightousness, for thiers is the kindom of heaven"... that fits the feeding of the lions!

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

Much like Alfred Nobel, I believe the inventors of Christianity and Islam doctrines, fables and dogmas had peaceful intentions. Modern day followers of Islam have perverted the 'teachings' into a monolithic force that accounts for a disproportionate amount of distress in societies not indoctrinated in the ways of Islam. The unfortunate result is conflict between the appeasers of difference in each society and the those that cling to their culture and ways. Islam will likely prevail because there is no compromise within ranks. Death is your only path of resistance. At least Christians have watered-down their religion to a point you take what you want with no earthly penalty for violation.

Remember: In a compromise between food and poison, only death can win. Think about this when we as a society start 'accommodating' Islamists and their ways.

JC, much like Constintine struggled with the doctines in Christianity (he had his own son executed, virgins burned alive at the stake and molten led poured in the mouths of people) Islam will have to move to a more moderate, modern stance. The pressure of commerce, trade and international recongnition will apply that pressure naturally within Islam. This is an INTERNAL struggle that has unfortunatly involved us and is taking too long for the Saudi's to get a control of.... Wahhabism is the danger. The leaders of Arab Nations and Islamic Nations that want to trade with the US should be more aware of this and we should pressure them more.... but that's difficult when our our leaders are BUSINESS PARTNERS WITH THEM! Mostly OUR OWN LEADERS don't care... they say one thing... take us to war... profit from it and do nothing to chage things.

Were just puppets at there little puppet theater.

 

[rph9168]

Supposedly the Christians died because they refused to renounce their fatih however many others died in the Colliseum who were not Christians - runaway slaves, criminals, deserters and others deemed malcontents. I am not sure I would say they went willingly but rather than face persecution by their fellow Christians for renouncing their faith and becoming outcasts without a refuge. I think they would have rather been live Christians than dead ones.

In all the years I studied theology and Roman history I don't recall ever seeing it written that they went willingly. It's an interesting take but I am not sure it is totally accurate. I think they made a choice but I think the term willingly is a little off base.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

RPH,

I don't know what you studied in "theology" but I know what I learned.

http://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/the-history-of-christian-martyrs-faq.htm

What is the history of Christian martyrs?

The history of Christian martyrs, according to the Bible, begins in Acts with the stoning of the apostle Stephen. Later in the book of Acts, the apostle Paul calls Stephen Jesus' martyr. It says in Acts 22:20, "And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him."

However, the history of Christian martyrs does not end with Stephen's death. During the first century after Jesus' death nearly all of his disciples suffered martyrdom for His sake. James the son of Zebedee was beheaded in approximately 44 A.D. Philip was crucified in 54 A.D. Matthew was killed with a halberd, an ax-like weapon, in 60 A.D. James, who is thought to be the brother of Jesus, was beaten to death, Matthias was beheaded, Andrew was crucified, Mark was torn to pieces, and Peter was crucified upside down. Jude, Bartholomew, and Thomas were also martyred. Paul suffered martyrdom in Rome where he was beheaded. Other early apostles Luke, Barnabas, Timothy, and Simon were also killed for the sake of Christ.

The history of Christian martyrs does not end with the death of the disciples. Thousands willingly gave their lives under Roman persecution by the emperors Nero, Domitian, Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, Maximus, Decius, Valerian, Aurelian, and Diocletian. The Roman persecution lasted well into the fourth century A.D. and did not end until Emperor Constantine declared Christianity the official religion of his empire. During the same time period, in Persia, where the Gospel had quickly spread, many others were also martyred for their faith.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

And this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_martyrs

A Christian martyr is one who is murdered or put to death for his Christian faith or convictions. Many Christian martyrs suffered cruel and torturous deaths like stoning, crucifixion, and burning at the stake. The word 'martyr' comes from the Greek word translated "witness." Martyrdom is the result of religious persecution.

The first known Christian martyr was Saint Stephen as recorded in the Acts 6:8–8:3, who was stoned to death for his faith. Stephen was killed (i.e., martyred) for his support, belief and faith in Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. There were probably other early Christian martyrs besides Stephen since Saul, later-known as the Apostle Paul of Tarsus, is mentioned as bringing many murderous threats against the disciples or followers of Jesus (Acts 9:1ff.).

In subsequent centuries, during periods of widespread persecution, and in particular during the Protestant Reformation, many Christians were martyred, being charged alternately as heretics or Papists. Modern statistics of total Christian martyrs are estimated to total around 70 Million.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

And still I make my point... are you sure you guys payed attention in Sunday school?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_early_Christians_by_the_Romans

Martyrdom

Some early Christians sought out and welcomed martyrdom. Roman authorities tried hard to avoid Christians because they "goaded, chided, belittled and insulted the crowds until they demanded their death." A group of people presented themselves to the Roman governor of Asia, C. Arrius Antoninus, declared themselves to be Christians, and encouraged the governor to do his duty and put them to death. He executed a few, but as the rest demanded it as well, he responded, exasperated, "You wretches, if you want to die, you have cliffs to leap from and ropes to hang by."[6] Such seeking after death is found in Tertullian's Scorpiace but was certainly not the only view of martyrdom in the Christian church. Both Polycarp and Cyprian, bishops in Smyrna and Carthage respectively, attempted to avoid martyrdom.[citation needed]

The conditions under which martyrdom was an acceptable fate or under which it was suicidally embraced occupied writers of the early Christian Church. Broadly speaking, martyrs were considered uniquely exemplary of the Christian faith, and few early saints were not also martyrs. However, suicide is traditionally condemned in the Christian church.

 

[Ben's Car Wash]

http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/earlmart.htm