IBA Hand Wash

[Turbo]

Your thoughts please:

I have a Southern Pride Turbo and 3 self serve bays next to my 3 bay fast lube. I have 41k cars that pass in front of it at approx 30 mph. The facility is in an urban area with a lot of roof tops. It is all rear entry.

I have read some posts here over the years about hand wash IBAs. I am planning on doing the following:

-adding a hand wash selection that will be only avialable during work hours.
-car will pull up to IBA and get blasted by two prep guns and washed by two attendants.
-car will then get one undercarriage and two rinse cycles (all high pressure)
-car will then go through dryers (at end of bay) and proceed to drying area
-car will get completly dried by hand, compressed air for mirrors, vacuumed, armorall, windows inside.

I am prepping every car with two guys (from fast lube when bell hose rings) I will not spend much incremental labor on front end. I will go from 15 cars per hour to approx 30 when I am really busy. I will cover prep area and put an automatic door on both ends.

I will save on soap since I won't have two 35 second soap cylces (that is what I give on my most popular wash. I will go from approx 1.00 cost per car in util and soap to approx 25 cents (guess).

One issue is getting mits rinsed from car to car (dont want to scratch next car).

Thanks in advance for your help.

Turbo

 

[Waxman]

What will your price point be? Hope it's nice and high. I've heard of this concept but it doesn't compute for me, personally. I get your concept, but how do you convince customers that the automatic carwash is not 'less than' when the guys aren't prepping and towelling the car??? I think if you run a carwash, you should run it the same all the time. Reason being, customers will expect the prep services all the time, not during attended hours of the lube shop only. How do you plan to deal with this issue?

 

[Turbo]

Thanks for feedback

$9 to launch it and then $12 (or maybe $12 from start). Why 12? Seems to be about the market around here.

I think people feel they get what they pay for. Right now I prep every car including the wheels because if I don't the cars will not all be consistently clean (side note: I have a lot of unwaxed old cars that have a lot of texture to them-tough to clean). You would think that everyone would go for middle wash since the end product is almost the same between the middle and most exp wash, but they don't they go for the most expensive.

As far as consistency, I agree with you. I would like to have it be a $12 hand wash but I have two concerns. One, I would like to appeal to everyone from the person that paid $3.99 at the gas station next store for a discounted wash to the full service guy that wants everything done and is more likely to become an oil change customer("do it for me"). My competion ranges from 2.99 to 14.99. My second concern is that I would lose the nighttime business (I close teh oil change business at 7pm). I would stay open until 10pm if I had customers.

Another thought is that if I can have more people on staff they can jump to oil change and car wash depending on where the need is.

I got this idea from a post on this forum by a opertator in california that does 200 cpd at $8 (with after wash services). And I thought: I can spend 100k on another automatic that will also not clean all cars consistently and takes 4-8 minutes to do it or I can use what I have and double my production (2-3 minutes per car) and lower my expenses (assuming I get decent volume). And if it fails I can then buy another automatic.

 

[Turbo]

Another thought is that if I give a way a $12 car wash with an oil change (vs the $7 car wash) I can sell more oil changes. If I could somehow charge $50 for the car wash and give it away free (and still cost me .25) I would do even better.

A few words on my "critcism" of the ability of an IBA to clean. The avg car in my fast lube if 9 years old and has 88k miles. I have seen how easily dirt comes off a newer, waxed car; that is simply not my market. I have a lot of lower income folks that dont wash weekly and drive old cars. Regardless they expect t to be clean when they leave a CAR WASH. Also, I am thinking that these folks don't get a lot pampering; they provide it to others in their jobs. So if they get it they will like it. So far I have taken horrible business and got it to pay the bills. However, I admit I not an expert I just think about this place all the timeand I do appreciate your feedback.

 

[Turbo]

CORRECTION:the operator in california is $8 WITHOUT any services after the wash

 

[Danny]

For your question about keeping the mitts clean is easy. Mitt tanks! It is basically a large stainless steel double sink. You need one on each side of the tunnel for each wash attendant. One side is filled with a mild dolution of tunnel soap (some add a little all purpose cleaner or degreaser to this) where the washmitts/washpads get dunked a few times to help flush the dirt from the mitts/pads. The other side is "clean"water to get dunked in a few more times and then takin back to the car (attendants can do this in just a few seconds). Some washes use this second tank as a source of soapy water to wash the car down with, this is a waste. Use your arches to apply the soap. If you pull soap from the mitt tanks you end up losing more chemical on the ground than you will use on the car. If a washmitt/pad is in question of being "unusable" because it is too dirty...toss it. A washmitt/pad is a lot less expensive than a paint job and less headache than a irate customer. This shouldn't happen too often though. Your two prep attendants should be using the pressure washer or a brush to remove any large debris from the car. This is the most popular method I have witnessed with my customers here in california. Where is your wash located?
I hope this helps
Danny Umbrell

 

[Axxlrod]

Where to start...

I believe I am the operator you are referring to, and I have many thoughts on this idea as I've been doing this for over 5 years. I believe you are being too simplistic about this. Make no mistake, a hand wash is a pain to manage. You are 100% dependant on your employees work ethic. They must wash every inch of every car or you will have complaints and re-washes. If one or more employees don't show up to work you can't run your business. Plus customers that patronize hand washes are more picky by nature, and expect their car to be practically detailed since their car is being washed by hand. Which includes scrubbing every single bug off every car and thoroughly cleaning every wheel. And to do this you need staff. There's no way you can do any volume unless you have staff that do nothing but wash cars; not lube employees who walk over to wash cars when needed. There's no way to do 30 cars per hour with only 2 employees. I need 5 employees on the clock to do this amount. Also you need more chemicals than just soap. I run bug goo or presoak depending on time of year, neutral hand wash soap, wheel cleaner, drying agent and spot free; and if you are running high pressure spot free, you're going to need a lot of it. In regard to pricing, if you do it by hand, you need to charge for it. But be warned; the more you charge people, the more they expect for their money, and the more inclined they are to complain.

My advice is to put in a friction mini-tunnel.

PM me if you have more questions.

 

[DavidM]

I would suggest a good friction inbay automatic. It will address the cleaning problems you have with your touchfree and will give you a consistently clean car without the headaches of trying to manage a team to wash the cars. A good friction auto will clean very well, will clean wheels and deliver a very dry car to the customer. We are getting $12 for the top wash in our friction automatic. The one thing this does not address will be speed, you will not get 30 cph. However, none of the money will go to pay a team to wash and dry the cars.


David

 

[Waxman]

I agree with staying as automated as possible. My IBA is in a middle-lower class area and I too get alot of older cars. I think you discredit an IBA's abilities to clean a car too much. Plus, you can make up for the volume you think you'd lose by being open 24/7.

I think you should explore more IBA options before electing to do handwashes. Since I have IBA and SS, I tell some customers to prep themselves in the SS, then get a lower priced wash so they spend the same $$ and get a great car. That's a win/win.

 

[robert roman]

The problem you described, what system should I use to service the needs of customers, can be solved with throughput accounting.

Throughput accounting is a management accounting system based on the theory of constraints. It can be used to help make decisions when system throughput, constraints and capacities at critical points are key elements. This systems approach to problem solving is based on the assumption that every business has at least one factor that inhibits the ability of the business to maximize profit.

Throughput accounting defines three operational measurements to evaluate whether a business is working towards the goal of making money now and in the future.

1) Throughput is the rate at which the car wash generates money through sales (selling price multiplied by sales volume minus cost of goods).
2) Investment includes total system investment (land, buildings, equipment and inventory).
3) Operating expense includes everything else that is used to keep the car wash running such as utilities, labor, maintenance, repairs, depreciation, taxes, amortization, etc.

Throughput accounting allows for three measures that can be used for the purpose of evaluating decisions.

1) Net profit (throughput minus operating expense)
2) Return on investment (net profit divided by investment)
3) Productivity (throughput divided by investment)

Given these measures, individuals can make decisions by examining the effect of those decisions on the company?s overall throughput, investment and operating expense. A decision that results in increasing throughput, decreasing investment or decreasing operating expense will generally be a good decision.

Throughput accounting is often used in production management to support decision making for the continuous improvement of processes such as solving bottleneck, inventory and scheduling problems.

I hope this helps.

Bob Roman
www.carwashplan.com

 

[Turbo]

Thanks for th info on mits. I am in Chicago. Any specific mits you recomend? Cloth or lambs wool, etc?

 

[briteauto]

Turbo,

I have never attampted a hand wash/IBA, but my gut instinct would be to agree with the posters who suggested a friction IBA or express tunnel.

However, if you are certain you want to run a hand/IBA, it seems as though you could make more use of your turbo wash than just as a hp rinse/ccp arch. Could you have the customer enter the bay, receive the under car/wheel and rocker panel blast, get one pass of presoak, one pass of hp, then stall the tower while your attendants mitt the car in the bay, then let the tower make a final pass or two for rinse/ccp/sf?

It seems if you are seeking and IBA/hand wash, you are interested in two things:

-A better quality wash than the IBA alone
-the use of the IBA itself to help with the process.

The turbo could apply pre soak/soap and hp, and help break up the tough stuff before your attendants mitt the car. I am sure some type of stall switch could be installed to pause the tower while it is receiving the hand part of the wash.

Every hand wash tunnel I have seen has an arch or two of pre-saok/soap or even hp before the attendants touch the car with mitts.


Like I said, I do not have experience with this, so I would take Axxlrod's advice very seriously, but it just seems that you could make more use of the equipment you already have, and still offer a hand wash portion of the wash. I know there is the concern of chemical consumption, but I would take that any day over labor - providing the cars were properly cleaned. You would not even need the highest strength chemical, or two passes of chemical if the car was going to get hand washed.

 

[Waxman]

If you insist on trying this concept (and hey, I'll try new methods sometimes, myself), let me offer some practical advice on hand washing. I may not be an expert, but having hand washed cars to prep for detail jobs since 1985, I have done my share of handwashing.

Forget about wooly wash mits or microfiber mits or mits (mitts?) of any kind. Get some good quality, rectangular wash brushes on wooden poles. Train the crew to use those to wash the cars. You're going to want to avoid banging the car body, glass and mirrors with them. Dunk in the water often, at least 3 times per wash. Have a separate brush/bucket for tire and wheel washing.

As far as soaps, buckets, etc. keep it simple. Each side gets its own setup. Maybe put caster wheels on the buckets, maybe not; your call. Definitely put one of those grit screens in the base of every bucket you wash with. They have those in Sonny's and Kleen Rite.

I may bet lampooned for suggesting you not use wash mitts, but it's better, trust me. The perceived value of mitts may be higher, but it's better to not have the employees dunking their hands in soapy water all day when it's busy. Dry, cracked and painful cust on my hands used to be a normal occurrence for me but not any more. And that was WITHOUT harsh carwash chemicals as the soaps.

 

[MEP001]

Could you have the customer enter the bay, receive the under car/wheel and rocker panel blast, get one pass of presoak, one pass of hp, then stall the tower while your attendants mitt the car in the bay, then let the tower make a final pass or two for rinse/ccp/sf?

I've done almost exactly this with our Vector to clean my own car, and the results are fantastic. First pass presoak, quick high-pressure pass, second pass presoak with a two-minute dwell, during which I scrub the car down, then it completes the wash process. It removes the gritty stuff so I'm not scratching up the car (I use a hog's hair brush rather than a mitt) and it applies soap for me, I only have to worry about rinsing the brush after the process. The downside is speed - even with all the passes cranked up fast, it takes just as long as the top level wash. The upside is that it's easily a one-man process - if you limit prep to a wheel cleaner application during the first presoak cycle and blow out the mirrors as the spot-free cycle is ending, the finish should come out equal to a tunnel wash for the cost of an attendant, and you can justify charging more.

 

[Danny]

Thanks for th info on mits. I am in Chicago. Any specific mits you recomend? Cloth or lambs wool, etc?

Ok, if you buy mitts from me or another distributor...hands down the best quality is from Buff and Shine. Other companies make good mitts but Buff and Shine makes great mitts.
As far as your employees dunking their hands in soap all day and having problems with their skin can be solved a few ways. First let me say some people will be sensative to just about anything they get on their skin (I can wash my hands in wheel acid and it doesn't bother me *shruggs*). With a good quality hand wash soap you should not have too much in the way of dry or cracking skin. A good hand wash soap should be formulated to be hypo allergenic and ph balanced for skin. If this is not available to you or is cost prohibitive, go with gloves and aprons. Go with atleast a 14" (18" is better) rubber or pvc glove. Also a PVC, vinyl, or rubber apron can help keep chemical off the employees and keep them dry and warm on cold days. Gloves and aprons should run you less than $10 or so per employee. I hope this helps. Feel free to PM or email me if you have questions.
Danny

 

[MEP001]

(I can wash my hands in wheel acid and it doesn't bother me *shruggs*).

Try dunking your hands in wheel acid over and over all day every day for a week and see if it bothers you.

 

[Waxman]

I still think 'forget mitts'. I used a great and gentle carwash soap and gloves and still had problems due to volume of cars hand washed with mitts. Hogs hair is super-gentle and the poles let you do a faster, more efficient job. And as another bonus, their reach is better for high vehicles. That way, employees won't have to climb up on anything to wash parts they cannot reach with mitts.

 

[Chiefs]

YOU ARE IN CHICAGO!

And you prep outside with pressure washers. Now you want mitt tanks outside!. I take it you're closed on many of the best wash days in the winter when the temperature is below 30. Sure you save a little soap and water, but the labor costs will be 2-3 times those savings. Where on God's green Earth do you find employees at. I doubt they're Americans.

If you have 41,000 cars a day going by at a speed of 30 MPH and you proceed with this insane plan instead of tearing down that automatic bay or better yet adding a Hybrid tunnel ( c'mon guys, total friction tunnels are so passe), you will not be happy. I know its far cheaper to do it your way, but you may as well try to wash cars with one hand tied behind your back. And being a hand wash, when (not if) your employees miss an area prepping and miss it again when wiping, it will stand out like a sore thumb. Don't forget too, that with wipers at then end, people are going to get out of their vehicle to inspect it and when they find a problem, will be grabbing your wipers to fix the problem.

We do a minimal amount of prepping (front, rear and under wiper blades) and have no one at then end because vehicles come out 90-98% dry depending on the time of year and line speed. In the winter we frequently reach line speeds of 110 cars (actual) per hour. We do that with just 4 employees. Our traffic count is only 25,800 and another 8,000 at the intersection which we are only 300' from. With 41,000 a day, not only is a tunnel justified but will return far greater profits wirh far less headaches. I believe you have a site which my lend itself to a flex-serve facility.

You have so much potential, don't sell yourself short and at the same time create a myriad of headaches and worst of all, have to close on mnay of the peak wash days of the year due to extreme cold. If you were in Southern California, Arizona, or the Southeast, it would make far sense than in Chicago with a such a great location.

Bill

 

[Danny]

Try dunking your hands in wheel acid over and over all day every day for a week and see if it bothers you.

I have, and it does not bother me. Everyone has different sensitivity levels to their skin. I was using myself as a example of one extreme that is possible. I am lucky in that my hands and arms are not very reactive . I can give examples in the opposite direction of extreme sensitivity also. I was more trying to help Turbo with what is possible, what the general experience is, and how to deal with some of the problems that might develop. After all we are here to help each other make informed decisions by offering our individual experiences. It is wonderful to see so many participating to help .

Danny

"If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability." - HENRY FORD

 

[Turbo]

Thanks again for all of this advice.

I am currently using the hogs hair prep approach: one bucket on each side filled with presoak (with a cutoff milk crate in the bottom to keep the sand, etc off the car). I also have a bucket of tire cleaner on each side for the tires. 99% of the cars get 100% clean (according to MY subjective standard). A couple problems: takes too long, cannot get everysquare inch (presoak from automatic gets the remainder) and I use chemical and utilities.

The 30 cph was best case, in the winter, with a line (after snow/salt/sun). Right now I can do about 12-15 cph max.

We do the prep outside, works good until it gets about 15 degrees; then it freezes on the car as we are putting it on.

I also want to replicate a "full serv" wash by adding after wash services: vacuum , armorall, etc. Again outside. That is what I do inconsistently and what my competition does consistently. I am trying to capture the DIFM people and cross market with fast lube.

Hearing everything you are saying maybe I should just add a prep gun and prep as I have been? I will respond seperately to tunnel idea and post another question on untilities.