I guess I should have gotten an Electrical Engineering Degree

[Bubbles Galore]

I want to have a monitoring system for my chemicals that I use in the bays to help me determine most used products, most profitable etc...

I would also like to set something up like an autodialer that would call me if either one of the changers went down or if my alarm was set off.

I have been told to use a plc, but I just don't have the time to teach myself ladder logic. Is there an alternative or is that about it?

Has anyone used these before? Click PLC If I had to go with a plc, I was thinking about this one. Obviously, price is the biggest appeal of this unit.

 

[car washing systems inc]

John i did this at all my locations, i did it through my alarm company, used the out of service light to close a relay and sends the signal also have my automatic and acw set up like this, best thing i ever did. EV has a autodialer

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Are you using the EV autodialer now? I figured for the $400+ that I would have to spend to get it all set up, there might be a more cost effective alternative.

 

[mac]

Arcadian Chemical used to have an auto dialer that monitored four different things, and would call several numbers when activated. You could have it monitor a normally open contact, normally closed, motion activated thing, or door switch. It cost arounf $100.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

IMO, if you're going to DIY, learn how to do it and use a plc. Its not that hard. Otherwise buy off the shelf. I find that those in-between solutions are compromises that dont give you all the benefits, are usually not as reliable, and dont end up saving that much $ in the long run anyway.

 

[car washing systems inc]

No it is done through my alarm company, but i think you can get something from a place like radio shack, i think they sell a alarm kit with autodialer

 

[JGinther]

If you are a logical thinker, you should have no problem with ladder logic. They are just a more economical and space saving method versus using relays, timers, counters, and the like. So if you know how you would set up a circuit using standard components, you could program a PLC. The software interface is the only thing that may take a day to get used to, but otherwise it is just basically drawing a schematic of the circuit that you want. The reason it is called ladder logic is that it ends up looking like a ladder when done. Basically you just draw lines from inputs to timers, counters, etc. and from them you draw lines to outputs. There are many way more complex things that they can do also, but that is all you really need to know for what you are doing. I would still recommend using a stand alone dialer and just use an output from the PLC to signal it. You will save having to learn a lot about communication protocols that way.

Good luck!

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for all the great advice! I think I might look into getting something from AutomationDirect. The company I work for has a bunch of the DL105's and they said that they would gladly give me a copy of their software so I wouldn't have to buy it. If I end up buying a plc, that will force me to get off my butt and learn how to play with my new toy.

 

[pitzerwm]

You can go to our library under presentations and get an idea on how to use a PLC

 

[mac]

One thing I like to keep in mind has to do with machine evolution. If you get a chance to study how machinery evolves, you will see a trend where the design advances, sometimes greatly, after it reaches the market. Tinkeres buy something and start fooling with how it works. A lot of time nothing much happens, but sometimes you find ways to make the original design much better. There was a great show on PBS years ago called connections that explored this. It was fascinating to watch for a tech junkie. So go ahead and play with stuff. I think that's what Steve Jobs did.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I think that is going to be the best thing for me to do Mac. I am just going to jump right in and buy a plc and start screwing around with some simple programming (like a triple foam system) and then I can learn 'hands on' which has always been the best way for me to do it.

 

[MEP001]

With the software you don't even need a PLC to start learning. All the ones I've seen have a simulate mode so you can test the ladder program.

 

[bigleo48]

Bubbles,

You don't even need to learn ladder logic. Some PLC software (like the Siemans Logo) does it for you with many "premade" routines.

Big

 

[rph9168]

One thing that kind of amazes me is that while there has been some decent improvements in our industry over the last 20 years or so there really hasn't been a major innovation. I would say the last real innovation was the in-bay automatic. Sure we now have foam friction media, some improvements in chemistry, and some equipment advances but there seems to be no ground breaking innovations to significantly improve the quality of the wash. We all know that in addition to the quality of a wash, speed has become an issue as well as environmental concerns like water usage or contamination issues. I would think by now we would have seem at least something really new in the way of washing a vehicle. Maybe I am expecting too much or overlooking something.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Mep - I will have to give that a try then. I should have guessed that they would offer a mode like that so that you could see if the system worked. Thanks!

BigLeo - I like the Logo series and thought about using them....but I would rather have the expandability of the plc so that once I have the basic knowledge, I can go through and do some really fun stuff.

Here's another question: How could I use a plc to help control expenses at the wash? What are some of the things you guys have done? I am all about lowering my bills to help pad the bottom line. Any suggestions?

 

[MEP001]

I've been thinking about converting to fluorescent lighting in the bays (I've noticed that many big stores have moved away from HID lighting to fluorescent) and using a PLC to control half the lighting. My thought was four lights per bay, two on all the time and two that come on as soon as the customer starts the timer, with a delay (say 20 minutes) to stay on after the input is closed. More light while they're washing, less energy used while the bays are idle. I could even incorporate a motion sensor to keep the lights on as long as someone's in the bay and moving around after the bay is used.

I'm going to add a PLC to a wash that has a boiler which just circulates the water from the gravity-feed tank and have it come on only when a bay is in use. There's no need to keep an uninsulated tank of water hot all night or if it's raining if it can get hot in 30 seconds when called for.

I've already used them in the bays to delay the pump start/stop, blow down the bay hose after each customer and to cancel the credit card transaction when the customer selects "STOP". I don't know if the delay saves energy, but I'm sure it's reducing the wear and tear on the equipment. I'm going to rewire our combo vacs to eliminate a mess of factory wiring and an expensive rotary switch, and also delay the vac/compressor start-up.

 

[JGinther]

One thing that kind of amazes me is that while there has been some decent improvements in our industry over the last 20 years or so there really hasn't been a major innovation.... I would think by now we would have seem at least something really new in the way of washing a vehicle. Maybe I am expecting too much or overlooking something.

I get excited for new small improvements all the time. I get a little nervous though when thinking about when the next quantum leap in car wash technology comes about.... One thing is for sure - It will murder all of us and our special use "real estate".

 

[JGinther]

If you are really good at programming, you could make a robot that would wash bays, empty trash, and punch morons. I'll buy 5 - name your price.