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friction IBA's

S

soonermajic

Well-known member
lets compare friction IBA's:
1. do you need 3 or 5 brushes
2. dually capable
3. guide rails on the floor
4. features/functions
5. speed/quality of wash
6. looks: bells/whistles
7. anything else price...?

What IBA's are tops in these categories?
 
This is my opinion for what its worth!
1. 3 brushes are fine if you wash under 16k cars per year. Over that go, with 5. But be sure the side brushes overlap!
2. Not qualified to answer, no duallies in my market.
3. Definitely need guide rails. Low profile though, due to wheel wash brushes needing to pass over them.
4. Soft foam mixed mousse brushes with pe bristles at the bottom for better skirt cleaning, pre soak pass, all round high pressure. Not a pretend high pressure as used by many suppliers with undersized pumps!, lava wax, rain x, contouring dryers (but not contouring soap), chemical direct injection (not awful diaphragm pumps), wheel wash brushes with high pressure water and customizable programs.
5. Should be able to wash, wax and dry in 5 mins or less!
6. Digital top mounted prompts look great. One of the nicest looking frictions for me is made in Italy by Aquarama.
7. In Europe, washtech is no.1 (good quality friction washes, awful touchless machines. They do however try and force you to use the authorized dealers for maintenance. Istobal is ok, low priced but not great quality, Cecatto have ok machines but recently closed for a while leaving their dealers and customers with no parts or support. They need to show they are back for good. Karcher, good machines though, over complicated with poor distributor support.
 
Hello Sooner. First let me say that I sell the Istobal line, so I am biased towards them. I do however work on most of the other machines out there so am familiar with them. Liked Ireland's answers, but again, I'm biased because I like their whisky. A lot. Anyway:
1. Ireland's answer is good. Just to clarify on the overlapping part. If it a 5 brush machine like the Rykos they really don't overlap, just come in together. On an Istobal the two side brushes come together, and then go side to side as a pair, on both the front and back. This totally eliminates the classic skunk stripe.
2. Nice feature to have if you have a lot of them in your market. They will though be the vehicles that cause the most trouble.
3. I've stopped selling them with machines. We just epoxy blue reflectors to the floor. Istobal makes a small yellow guide rail, and it's a joke. Because the eyes that detect the wheels are so close to the floor, a regular 4" pipe will mess them up. With the smaller rails you can't feel when the tire hits it. And I have switched from tire brushes that extend from the gantry to fixed nozzle assembly that rotates and is recessed inside the gantry. The brushes will clean better but they are an easy target and require more maintenance, and if you use a kick butt tire chemical, it will do a decent job.
4. Again, I like most of what Ireland says. Let me give you a quick sales pitch on the Istobal foam material. They are the only company to my knowledge that makes their own foam material. And they don't sell it to anyone else. To give you an idea of its quality, do a search of Istobal and Lamborghini, and you will see the Istobal friction cleaning brand new $500,000 cars coming off the assembly line. Ferrari tested the material for three years to insure it would not scratch or dull the finish, and they have a machine also, but won't allow pictures. This material is also great to buff in a carnauba wax. We do a double wash pass, and then a double buff and shine with the carnauba. Finish with a quality wax and RO and the car will look hand buffed.
5. This is always an interesting area of auto washing. We can do a great job of washing a car and using an off board dryer, do it in around 3-1/2 minutes. However that is not always what the customer wants. Think of getting a haircut. No one likes to wait very long. BUT, when it's your turn in the chair, it's like take your time, do that talc powder afterwards. Really make me feel like I'm getting the best one ever.Yes it will take more time to do a car with a lot of features. You can however double your throughput very easily. Buy two machines.
6. Most all of the manufacturers can dress up a machine. You however can usually do it yourself cheaper by getting the frame wrapped. Istobal offers a choice of 14 colors to choose from for the brushes. And you can get them as one color, two, of alternate them. No extra charge for that.
7. I agree with most of Ireland's points. The only difference, and he wouldn't know this, if that the Istobal machine sold in the states is an Americanized version. They had some pretty good teething issues when the first machines were sold in the US. So the US guys in Bristol decided to do something about it. The machines today are simply a different animal than the older or foreign ones are. Different enough that they put a two year warranty on all parts. When any of our customers machines goes down (remember, Jesus did not build these machines, so they will go down) we know about it in 10 to 15 seconds, as it emails us and tells us what the issue is. If it's minor, we reset it from our phone and continue the wash. If any of you are down in FL on its west coast this winter, stop by and I'll give you a tour. And maybe even introduce you to that wonderful Irish whisky.
 
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Hello Sooner,
I agree with the comments from others. Like Mac on the Istobols, I can answer your questions related to Ryko.
1. Wash quality between 3 and 5 brush models are going to be similar. The 3 brush will typically require a slightly longer track length as it has to travel full length of the vehicle to get the front/rear with the side brushes, and because of this, they typically will operate slightly slower. Most 3 brush units do get an edge because of the ability to have the side brushes come together, then shift left/right across the front/rear. We call it rebrushing on our Softgloss MAXX 3. On the Softgloss MAXX 5 brush, we do have rear arm oscillation which allows each individual arm to come across center to eliminate the skunk stripe on most vehicles.
2. Most of our sites in TX want to wash duallies. For our equipment, we suggest not going with the wheel scrub so they don't get damaged while the trucks pull through. Use the tire cleaner with the HP rotating wheel blaster.
3. With the photoeye bayplate we sell on new equipment, we have also moved away from the 4" guide rails in favor of the low profile so they don't interfere with the wheel blaster photoeye operation. While we like the larger ones to control the vehicle positioning, many sites are now preferring reflectors.
4. Same comments as above. Mac had mentioned the Istobol foam which I understand is solid. Ryko first brought the foam material over the pond, and it's been a solid performer as well and has also been the preferred material for other car manufacturers in their plants. Just do your homework here. Higher quality material will be a closed cell which helps prevent debris getting into the pores of the brush which can cause scratching. The lower quality materials out there are generally more porous.
5. Speed/quality - This is always a balance. Most equipment today can wash a vehicle in 3.5 minutes for a basic wash and 5 minutes for full up packages (with off-board dry). The slower you go will generally return a higher quality and perceived quality, but it's a balance.
6. You can easily dress a bay using LED lights, signage, wraps, painted covers, different foam configurations. Most manufacturers have a lot of flexibility in that respect. Keep in mind that with some of the lighting and signs, part of this is also show for the next customer in line. There are also subtle effects you can add like extending the undercar time so it sprays behind the vehicle to entice the next customer to purchase that add. Work with your sales rep to expand the possibilities. They see a lot of sites and can often help to offer some advice here.
7. Excellent comments above. To expand on "Americanized" machines, there are some key differences between a machine's performance in International areas vs US. In the US, we have larger vehicles, so it will require a larger wash opening than most International specific models. Internationally, most customers will also get out of their vehicle to remove antennas, where in the US, they won't. We had to adapt our onboard dry carriage on the Softgloss MAXX 3 to be further away due to this. There other differences, but those are a couple for you to watch out for. An "Americanized" version should handle these areas well.
 
0urTown
Do you have the Autec? They look really good.
Talk to us about the ONE model. Is that not just a mini-tunnel?
 
soonermajic said:
0urTown
Do you have the Autec? They look really good.
Talk to us about the ONE model. Is that not just a mini-tunnel?
Click to expand...

The Autec EV-1 is the model we're considering for purchase. It is a friction/touchless/combo of both. They can configure it to go into a regular bay, but the configuration we're interested in is like a mini-tunnel without the conveyor. The building is around 65ft long, is aluminum framed with glass inserts, and polycarbonate roof panels. There is a presoak arch and tri-foamer at the entrance, the machine itself, then two rinse arches and two drying arches.
Appearance-wise, it's a very attention-getting design with leds that pulse different colors reminiscent of a circus midway. :p

We've gotten some advice that makes us a bit hesitant to jump too quickly. One of our forum buddies (I'm respecting their privacy) told us a family member has two of these machines installed and is having a lot of trouble with them. Also, I don't see very many of these machine owners speaking up on this forum. I also asked about it on the talkwash Facebook and got only two positive comments about it. Everyone else is advising us to look at other brands but they don't personally own Autecs. I've also heard that they're workhorses.

Another point to the in bay express is that there is a large potential for user error. The customer has to listen to prompts and move forward during the wash. We went to the factory in North Carolina last week to check it out in action and toured the place. They have the In Bay Express set up in front of the factory and allow the public to use it. I can tell you that it was never idle the entire time. Our distributor met us down there, and had to rescue one customer who didn't know to move forward into the wash bay. Another customer just sat there dazed after the wash cycle finished and didn't know to move forward for the rinse. We witnessed several others drive through those arches like the devil is after them, resulting in a p**s poor rinse job... Customers did the same thing at the dryers. One of the folks on the talkwash facebook group warned us that customers having too much control over their wash would be a bad thing, and so far, we've seen that in action. I also didn't think it did a good enough job cleaning the wheels.

On the pro side of the discussion is the machine does a very good job cleaning the vehicle (except the wheels). I would put it up against the express exteriors in terms of speed and cleaning ability, even considering the wheels because I've had express exterior wheel brushes just smear someone else's grime/grease around on my wheels- they were cleaner prior to entry.
The Autec's also blazing fast with that level of cleaning ability, or at least the one at the factory was, and there weren't wheel brushes, good or bad.
The building is attractive and modern. It's possible to choose almost any paystation you'd want, but I liked the Unitec/DRB Portal Ti they have. The paystation that can do everything you'd ever want - mobile payments, coupons/tokennotes, codes, and it has a pleasant video prompt/touch screen interface.
The owner is willing to entertain our ideas to customize or tailor their machine to our needs. I would definitely want to improve the wheel cleaning ability, fix the rinse arch problem, and add voice prompts with very noticeable signage to guide customers through the wash more effectively. While they told us that it's as dummy proof as you can get, I can see potential for improvement.

Overall and despite the negatives I mentioned, the Autec EV-1 in bay express is at the top of our short list.
 
Above configuration sounds exactly like a new 2017 car wash visited in VA with two setup side by side. If you are a different location and have not completed your work or want to speak with the owners PM me and I will provide you the name of the wash. Owners are very nice and helpful with info, genuine people. They had to overcome some hurdles in the setup process but learned a lot in the process.

If you are the owners in VA, thank you for sharing your info as it was one of the most informative visits and I have visited a lot of washes!
 
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