Falling Icicle

[docscarwash]

I recently had a customer call with a complaint that an icicle fell and dented his vehicle. I want to work with the individual, but his demeanor is making it difficult. Research in the area (and a conversation with my insurance agent) tells me that falling icicles that are naturally occurring are generally not the liability of the property owner (unless negligence can be proved), it is simply bad luck.

Has anyone else encountered this issue? and what experiences did you have?

Any insight will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Earl Weiss]

Laws vary. What a coincidence that it happened on your property. Many jurisdictions do not impose liability for "Natural accumulation" . Now this issue is what is "natural' Snow falling on a flat surface is natural. Outside of that all sorts of arguments can be made concerning bad design or maintneance causing the unnaturla condition. Then of course there are arguments about open and obvious dangers. if you can readily see the danger and could easily avoid it, then a defense is assumption of the risk. Does your head hurt yet?

At this point blame it on your insurance. Tell thee customer you asked your agent about it and the company says you are not liable and you cannot violate the policy by taking a contrary position. He is welcome to let his insurance pursue it.

 

[robert roman]

I found being friendly tends to pay more dividends than being stern and inflexible.

“…..conversation with my insurance agent tells me that falling icicles that are naturally occurring….not the liability of the property owner (unless negligence can be proved)…”

I would express your agent’s opinion to the customer but offer to pay for half the damage because you feel bad about his bad luck.

Paint-less dent removal or factory spot repair/paint refinish is about 1/2 has much as traditional auto body shop.

A happy and loyal customer is generally worth 4 to 5 times as much as the random customer.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

What a coincidence that it happened on your property.

Tell thee customer you asked your agent about it and the company says you are not liable and you cannot violate the policy by taking a contrary position. He is welcome to let his insurance pursue it.

I agree with Earl. About once a year I tell a customer that if they are certain it occurred at my wash, to pursue it with their insurance company which will contact me if necessary. To the best of my knowledge they have never reported it to their insurance.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I found being friendly tends to pay more dividends than being stern and inflexible.

.

Depends, sometimes Bubba will just threaten to stab you, shoot you and make you his girlfriend.

 

[MEP001]

I found being friendly tends to pay more dividends than being stern and inflexible.

“…..conversation with my insurance agent tells me that falling icicles that are naturally occurring….not the liability of the property owner (unless negligence can be proved)…”

I would express your agent’s opinion to the customer but offer to pay for half the damage because you feel bad about his bad luck.

Paint-less dent removal or factory spot repair/paint refinish is about 1/2 has much as traditional auto body shop.

A happy and loyal customer is generally worth 4 to 5 times as much as the random customer.

I found that bending over backwards when you're not in the wrong to begin with just spreads the word that you're an easy mark.

If the person is lying about the icicle damaging his car, he is not a happy and loyal customer.

If the person is happy and loyal, he will approach you with a more pleasant demeanor that suggests he knows you will take care of him. When they start out aggressive, it's because they know that a lot of people will give in to avoid conflict, and are probably trying to scam you.

 

[Jeff_L]

I'm Leary about such claims this time of year. I've had people make outrageous claims who were just trying to get money for Xmas or to pay off xmas bills. Now I cannot confirm this is what they were trying to do, but that's how my insurance company felt when they investigated.

Are you liable when it hails on his car while on your property? I'd tell him you're not liable, it's Mother Nature. If he presses harder, then give him your insurance info.

 

[Earl Weiss]

..................... If he presses harder, then give him your insurance info.

I reccomend you DO NOT do this. I tell them that when I recieve a claim from their carrier or counsel I will decide whether to turn it over to my insurance company.

Sometimes insurance comapnies will pay nuisance claims and your rates will go up. No point in having the word get out that your company does this and have your rates go up. Plus I have a deductible on my liability policy so if the claim is near the deductible amount I certainly don't need the insurance company handling it.

 

[pgrzes]

I havnt had to many problems but when I do I tell them they need to contact their Insurance Co. and they will determine whether or not my Insurance Co. needs to get involved. I also add, they should drive down the street to the Police dept. and file a report with them as that would be needed for any claim. The extra work necessary will usually weed out any bs claims.

 

[WikiWash]

depends, sometimes bubba will just threaten to stab you, shoot you and make you his girlfriend.

lmao!!!!!!!

 

[Earl Weiss]

................... I also add, they should drive down the street to the Police dept. and file a report with them as that would be needed for any claim. The extra work necessary will usually weed out any bs claims.

Whatever works. The Chi town cops would be a little disturbed if I kept sending people to them to make reports for non criminal matters.

 

[rph9168]

I would never tell someone to contact my insurance company. I would not even tell them to call their insurance carrier because they might go after your insurance company as well. Simply tell them it is not your responsibility and you are not liable. Giving out any insurance information is not the best way to go in almost every case as several others have already said. Depending on how well you know your agent you might give him a call to see where you stand and possibly give him a heads up but otherwise do not accept liability.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Any cameras to check?

 

[MEP001]

I reccomend you DO NOT do this. I tell them that when I recieve a claim from their carrier or counsel I will decide whether to turn it over to my insurance company.

If it were a matter of letting the insurance decide whether or not it's covered, I might agree, but the one time we had a damage claim which was clearly not our fault, we let our insurance contact the customer's, and they were more than happy to do it. We still ended up looking like the bad guy because the bitch was psycho (She claimed we didn't turn in the request in time even though her claim was denied three days after it happened), but we never heard from her lawyer like she threatened.

 

[rph9168]

From past experience I would always be very careful talking to or contacting either insurance companies. I would make every effort to resolve or settle the issue one way or the other and keep them out of the dispute. I have seen too many times when they deal out of a feeling of expediency rather than what may be in your best interest based on what it might cost them and not you.

 

[Greg Pack]

I recently had a customer call with a complaint that an icicle fell and dented his vehicle. I want to work with the individual, but his demeanor is making it difficult. Research in the area (and a conversation with my insurance agent) tells me that falling icicles that are naturally occurring are generally not the liability of the property owner (unless negligence can be proved), it is simply bad luck.

Is this an icicle that was caused by weather and fell off the outside of your building? Or, is this an icicle created by wash overspray and fell off your equipment? I would feel responsible for the latter.

 

[rph9168]

I would agree with cfcw but the way you stated it I assumed in occurred naturally and was not caused by the wash. If your wash created the icicle you should make an effort to resolve the issue even if the customer is acting like a jerk.

 

[Stuart]

I want to see this hunk of ice that made this dent. How big is this dent? How far did the ice fall?
My IBA gets icicles but they are only a few feet above the car and none are big enough to have any concerns to damage a vehicle.

Were there other large lances of frozen water you were able too see that would have done the damage the customer stated?
At the most I would pay for half as suggested in earlier post.

 

[Reds]

"Depends, sometimes Bubba will just threaten to stab you, shoot you and make you his girlfriend" HE BETTER BE FASTER ON THE DRAW THAN ME. My laser sighted 38 special is very accurate. I carry discreetly but i have a concealed carry vest that keeps it handy. Last option - but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[mmurra]

Never give out your insurance company information to anyone. Try to be the intermediary yourself. Otherwise, your company makes a settlement and it goes on your record, meaning higher premiums later (you lose).