cleaning up mud
Member
Does anyone have a combination machine they really like? Where the touchless works good and so does the friction?
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Combination/touchless/friction
- Thread starter cleaning up mud
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cleaning up mud
Member
I think whatever I put in next will not be on ground tracks. open to almost anything.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“Does anyone have a combination machine….where the touchless works good and so does the friction?”
A dual purpose or “hybrid” in-bay system that combines friction and touch-less cleaning processes cleans - shines - dries best.
So, a dual purpose in-bay in friction-only mode would not benefit from advantages of high-pressure cleaning (i.e. cavities, crevices).
Likewise, a dual purpose in touch-less only mode would not benefit from advantages of friction (i.e. eyebrows, polishing effect, etc.).
Arguably, the purpose of combining friction and touch-less cleaning processes is to produce a superior product and not customer choice.
Consider where the market leaders are going.
Today, Ryko, PDQ and Belanger are the big three in U.S. with respect to installed base of roll-overs and market share. WashTec has about 10 percent market share. Broadway owns the roll-over market for car dealerships and Autec is another player there.
These firms are concentrating on better wash and dry quality, state-of-the-art wash materials, exclusive car wax which creates a water resistant and high gloss finish, environmentally-friendly chemical, energy and water use reduction, reclaim systems and concentrated chemicals.
The reason is this is what their customers are demanding.
Consequently, it is becoming increasing difficult for “touch-less only” cleaning to fit in with many OEM’s strategic plans.
So, the answer to your question is most likely “no” and the prospect of an OEM developing such a system is also unlikely.
A dual purpose or “hybrid” in-bay system that combines friction and touch-less cleaning processes cleans - shines - dries best.
So, a dual purpose in-bay in friction-only mode would not benefit from advantages of high-pressure cleaning (i.e. cavities, crevices).
Likewise, a dual purpose in touch-less only mode would not benefit from advantages of friction (i.e. eyebrows, polishing effect, etc.).
Arguably, the purpose of combining friction and touch-less cleaning processes is to produce a superior product and not customer choice.
Consider where the market leaders are going.
Today, Ryko, PDQ and Belanger are the big three in U.S. with respect to installed base of roll-overs and market share. WashTec has about 10 percent market share. Broadway owns the roll-over market for car dealerships and Autec is another player there.
These firms are concentrating on better wash and dry quality, state-of-the-art wash materials, exclusive car wax which creates a water resistant and high gloss finish, environmentally-friendly chemical, energy and water use reduction, reclaim systems and concentrated chemicals.
The reason is this is what their customers are demanding.
Consequently, it is becoming increasing difficult for “touch-less only” cleaning to fit in with many OEM’s strategic plans.
So, the answer to your question is most likely “no” and the prospect of an OEM developing such a system is also unlikely.
I would say the JCC fusion X cleans well, but it is over-engineered IMO. It can be mechanical/electrical nightmare when something goes wrong. In addition, most true combo units are slow, requiring a HP touch free pass followed by a friction pass. I'm not sure I like the concept. I guess you could go friction first, allowing the touch free to also serve as a rinse, but that seems to defeat one of the advantages of a HP touch free pass to me (getting the dirt off the vehicles first before you brush). I need to get my wash times down, maybe I should re-think that
My own experience is this:
In the past quite a few customers drove off as soon as they saw brushes. Because they thought "brushes scratch cars!" No chance to catch and talk to them. Therefor I've got 2 machines: one brush and one touchfree. The touchfree does now 30% more than the brush. However, the brush machine gives a better result WITHOUT SCRATCHES.
When we first opened the second machine (touchless) my current brush customers moved over, checked it out and now they are back. Whenever I see cars that are lined up at the touchless I try to get them into the brush machine. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't - just to keep both machines equally busy.
In the past quite a few customers drove off as soon as they saw brushes. Because they thought "brushes scratch cars!" No chance to catch and talk to them. Therefor I've got 2 machines: one brush and one touchfree. The touchfree does now 30% more than the brush. However, the brush machine gives a better result WITHOUT SCRATCHES.
When we first opened the second machine (touchless) my current brush customers moved over, checked it out and now they are back. Whenever I see cars that are lined up at the touchless I try to get them into the brush machine. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't - just to keep both machines equally busy.
Bill Manke
Member
I have 2 MarkVii Choice washes. I think they do a great job. Kinda slow the way I have them set up. But they clean pretty good Touch or Touchless. We have made some modifications to make them work better but over all pretty good machine.We have a few people that have drove off but not many.
washnshine
Well-known member
The best washes do come from a process that utilizes high pressure followed by friction washing. Personally, I would not want a "choice" machine, as I would not even offer my customers a completely touch free wash.
I'm seeing some new machines right now (and older machines with upgrades) that have great high pressure wheel/rocker and side blasters before the foam friction portion of the wash. The high pressure prep does not add much time to the cycle, but adds a tremendous amount to the quality of the wash. There are some units that even have a complete pressure arch as an option on the machine (top and sides).
The new three brush Icon from PDQ has the high pressure pre-wash option. This is much more thorough and surface friendly than starting out a cycle with a low pressure detergent cycle and then immediately closing the brushes on the car that still has grit, sand and loose soil on the paint.
I also like the PDQ machine because it has the top brush on a vertical axis, but it does not extend down to the ground to clean the fronts and backs of the vehicles. The fronts and sides are covered very throughly by overlapping side brushes, and to have the top brush extend to these parts too, is a waste of time in my opinion.
The Mark VII and D&S machines are very thorough and are good machines, but they do have a top brush that does extend down to the floor. Sure, you do get extra coverage, but I am not sure there is an increase in quality that warrants the extra time.
Basically, I thing a high pressure pre-wash, at the very least on the sides and wheels, is a necessity that I would include on even my basic wash package - this would not be an extra service item for me.
I'm seeing some new machines right now (and older machines with upgrades) that have great high pressure wheel/rocker and side blasters before the foam friction portion of the wash. The high pressure prep does not add much time to the cycle, but adds a tremendous amount to the quality of the wash. There are some units that even have a complete pressure arch as an option on the machine (top and sides).
The new three brush Icon from PDQ has the high pressure pre-wash option. This is much more thorough and surface friendly than starting out a cycle with a low pressure detergent cycle and then immediately closing the brushes on the car that still has grit, sand and loose soil on the paint.
I also like the PDQ machine because it has the top brush on a vertical axis, but it does not extend down to the ground to clean the fronts and backs of the vehicles. The fronts and sides are covered very throughly by overlapping side brushes, and to have the top brush extend to these parts too, is a waste of time in my opinion.
The Mark VII and D&S machines are very thorough and are good machines, but they do have a top brush that does extend down to the floor. Sure, you do get extra coverage, but I am not sure there is an increase in quality that warrants the extra time.
Basically, I thing a high pressure pre-wash, at the very least on the sides and wheels, is a necessity that I would include on even my basic wash package - this would not be an extra service item for me.
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cleaning up mud
Member
Just Clean: Ive heard most people say theyre friction machine does 50% more washes then the touchless. Who knows for sure.
