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CoinCo Mag getting strung

bigjws

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I've got an old CoinCo Mag in my WSII pay station for my auto. Looks like someone figured out how to string it -- they're not getting much (few quarters gone), but I've found 3 20's with string in the validator in the past one and a half months, so they must be getting something..or they're not very bright (which is extremely possible.) Old threads I've read show that the newer CoinCo Vantage seem to be better, and I've got Mars in all my self-serve changers and haven't been hit. So the question I have is: has anyone upgraded from the Mag to the Vantage, and if so were the connections the same or was some sort of modification necessary? I'd rather just plug and play the updated validator if possible .. if I'm going to have to go through Unitec and get conversion crap and everything I'd probably switch to Mars so that I've got the same validators everywhere. Any experiences out there? Thanks -
 

Randy

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I think your going to have to go through Unitec. The mounting plate is different.
 

water guy

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There is a guy that comes out of Houston and is a professional. He comes out to the country and has a route last time this happened he had about 60 washs on his list and we and number of my friends who have washs had gotten strung .He finally got caught about 35 miles from me at another wash. He actually had a route and he would run it from time to time. When they busted him they got his map and he had to pay all of us back.Single man who lived with his mom.
 
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bigjws

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Went through Unitec, and they upgrade to a Mars validator. They've got a kit that has a validator, new mounting plate, cables, and 2 new chips that will need to be installed to upgrade the software. Of course, it's Unitec so they want $1000 for the validator (plus $375 for the chips/cables) .. hell, it may be cheaper just to let the guy string a few $$ of quarters from time to time!

Anyway, I can get the validator cheaper elsewhere, so that's the plan. Question though - what is the difference for Mars with the vending vs entertainment validators? Unitec's kit has an AE26xx, but a buddy of mine has a VN27xx -- both MDB and 24v. Kleen rite has a new AE26xx for about $450, but I can get the VN27xx for a few cases of beer...
 

MEP001

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I don't know all the differences, but I know enough to be pretty certain that the VN won't work.

Check eBay, I just bought another refurbished AE26xx for $175, it looks almost new inside and out and it works perfectly. The seller has a feedback of over 10,000 with a 99.6% positive rating.
 

Randy

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Anyway, I can get the validator cheaper elsewhere, so that's the plan. Question though - what is the difference for Mars with the vending vs entertainment validators? Unitec's kit has an AE26xx, but a buddy of mine has a VN27xx -- both MDB and 24v. Kleen rite has a new AE26xx for about $450, but I can get the VN27xx for a few cases of beer...
DON’T! even try to install a VN27XX validator in your Unitec ACW you’ll destroy it. The VN27XX validator is a MDB only validator, they are made primarily to be used in vending machines. The AE2602U7 is the validator you want to use, it’s a 24 volt pulse or MDB validator with a 700 note bill box on it. I don't have any AE2602 validators right now, they go pretty fast.
 

bigjws

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Alrighty … Well, that’s why I come to this forum for info – when I asked this question to the tech guys at Unitec I got ‘We would not be able to support installation or troubleshooting on equipment we do not sell.’

For my own info, do you know what the actual difference is between vending and entertainment interfaces? They are supposedly both MBD, but they work that differently?
 

Randy

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For my own info, do you know what the actual difference is between vending and entertainment interfaces? They are supposedly both MBD, but they work that differently?
MDB, Multi Drop Bus is the communication protocol between the host, normally a vending machine, some bill changers and the validator. The MDB validator when it accepts a bill or in some cases a credit card it send that information to the host. The data from a MDB validator is a faster and cleaner than from a pulse validator. Standard is the only bill changer maker that I know of that is all MRD now. They use a Mars AE2602U5 MDB validator. The AE26XX validator can be used in either a MDB or Pulse application by changing switch #8 from Gaming to Vending, Gaming is pulse and vending is MDB. Pulse protocol is pretty much what is used in the car wash industry, coin acceptors, timers, bill validators are all pulse. Pulse validators send a series of pulses to the host, normally one pulse per dollar. Does all of that confuse you? This will, all the frames on Mars validators are the same. The last number or the 4th number on the model number signifies the voltage of the validator, an AE2611U5 is 110 volt. You can take that validator turn it over, change the bezel and use it as an AE2631D7. Same with an AE2612U3 it’s a 24 volt validator, you can change the bezel and use it as a AE2602U7 in a Standard changer or a Hamilton Goldline ACW. Hope all that helps you understand it all, it can get a little confusing. Since Mars/MEI was bought by CPI a lot of changes have taken place. Some validators have been discontinued and new validators are coming out. In time all the AE series validators are going to be replaced, so I've been told.
 
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bigjws

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MDB, Multi Drop Bus is the communication protocol between the host, normally a vending machine, some bill changers and the validator. The MDB validator when it accepts a bill or in some cases a credit card it send that information to the host. The data from a MDB validator is a faster and cleaner than from a pulse validator. Standard is the only bill changer maker that I know of that is all MRD now. They use a Mars AE2602U5 MDB validator. The AE26XX validator can be used in either a MDB or Pulse application by changing switch #8 from Gaming to Vending, Gaming is pulse and vending is MDB. Pulse protocol is pretty much what is used in the car wash industry, coin acceptors, timers, bill validators are all pulse. Pulse validators send a series of pulses to the host, normally one pulse per dollar. Does all of that confuse you? This will, all the frames on Mars validators are the same. The last number or the 4th number on the model number signifies the voltage of the validator, an AE2611U5 is 110 volt. You can take that validator turn it over, change the bezel and use it as an AE2631D7. Same with an AE2612U3 it’s a 24 volt validator, you can change the bezel and use it as a AE2602U7 in a Standard changer or a Hamilton Goldline ACW. Hope all that helps you understand it all, it can get a little confusing. Since Mars/MEI was bought by CPI a lot of changes have taken place. Some validators have been discontinued and new validators are coming out. In time all the AE series validators are going to be replaced, so I've been told.
I get the MEI numbering system (2nd # is currency accepted and AE/VN, 3rd # is bezel, 4th is voltage, then U/D for up or down stack, then bill box size, and finally M/E for MBD/pulse), and I've got a 2602 on it's way -- I guess what I'm still confused on is why the 27xx would mess up the cashier when the 26xx used in MBD mode wouldn't? Since they are both using MBD, wouldn't they be the same? Or are you saying the WSII doesn't actually use MBD, so the validator will need to be put into pulse mode, and the 27xx can't do that?
 

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The VN2700 series is MDB only. WSII uses pulse validators.
 

bigjws

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Shockingly, still trying to deal with Unitec to get this upgrade accomplished .. ran into a new problem now. Their upgrade kit uses the MDB port (J9 on the WSII circuit board) to connect the Mars validator. Evidently, I must have a 'burnt trace or damaged component' on my circuit board, because there is no power getting to the MDB connector (and thus to the validator). So Unitec wants me to either shut down and send the board in for repair or buy a $2100 new one -- neither seems like a good option to me. So here's my question .. why can't the original connector that runs the CoinCo validator (J12 on the circuit board, which still has power) be used to connect the Mars validator? Or another option, wouldn't it be possible to just upgrade to the newer model CoinCo Vantage that supposedly can't be strung - wouldn't the older and newer CoinCo's use the same settings, etc? I'm hoping Randy or one of you other guys have had some experience with any of this .. I've got these same questions posed to Unitec, but haven't heard back yet.
 

mjwalsh

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Since Mars/MEI was bought by CPI a lot of changes have taken place. Some validators have been discontinued and new validators are coming out. In time all the AE series validators are going to be replaced, so I've been told.
Hopefully, the merger of SuzoHapp & Coinco will be some help towards "healthy competition" considering what Randy said about CPI Mars/MEI.
 
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bigjws

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Well, after some conversations with Unitec, they've 'figured out' how to connect the Mars validator the same way the CoinCo was..I should have a couple of cables on the way to me. I'll update when I get it hooked up..
 

cooll903

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Well, after some conversations with Unitec, they've 'figured out' how to connect the Mars validator the same way the CoinCo was..I should have a couple of cables on the way to me. I'll update when I get it hooked up..
do yourself a big favor and dump Unitech/DRB and go with ANYONE ELSE. i have had nothing but trouble with them.
 

Greg Pack

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I've had good luck with Unitec WS II. Don't like the new customer "no service" policy but rarely need it. I still run the old coincos. I just disable the refund button. To string the perp would have to purchase a wash, which slows the process enormously.

I print and clear the accounting report every time I collect money. If someone is stringing it will show up there as the number shown by "bills" won't match the actual pull.
 

bigjws

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I agree Greg - I've had 2 WSII's in service for 10+ years, both have been pretty bulletproof (knock on wood). As you said, it's a bitch to deal with Unitec when there is a problem, but it happens rarely.

I also disable the refund button .. this guy would purchase the $6 wash (my cheapest), get $14 in quarters, then wait for the wash to time out and do it again. I noticed when the quarters were empty one morning, and the computer showed 4 failures for the cheapest wash... I don't keep a lot of quarters in the cashier, so the most he got was around $50 one time, and probably took him sitting there for 15 minutes or so to get it. I was keeping the quarters down to around $15 afterwards so he couldn't get much (he tried twice more) while I was dealing with Unitec getting the new kit ordered, until the last time his $20 got stuck in the CoinCo stacker and broke it when he tried to pull it out. Now I'm just doing credit and quarters until I receive the new setup. I know, I know .. some of you will say cashless is better anyway, but I've had more than a handful of people asking when the I'll be accepting cash again -- they are still out there!
 
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