Belanger Freestyler Soap
- Thread starter WikiWash
- Start date
I'm curious to know what kind of soap people are using on their friction machines Lo pH, neutral, or Hi pH soap? Belanger has a long list of chemicals that they don't want you using on their Freestyler or it voids your warranty. You can not use HF, ABF ( I wouldn't use these anyway), Bromic Acid, Muriatic Acid, Sulphonic Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Hydrogen Cyanide, Hydrochloric Acid and Chlorinated Solvents.
That list excludes almost all low pH products and quite a few high pH ones. A list of what you can use would be shorter.
I can understand HF and ABF but many of the others should not be harmful to equipment or vehicles.
I can understand HF and ABF but many of the others should not be harmful to equipment or vehicles.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Strong mineral acids like HF, ABF, sulfuric, HCI are extremely corrosive.
Chlorinates are used to dissolve organics like fats and greases and are also used as intermediates in the production of other stuff like thinner, pesticides, resins and glue.
Exposure to some chlorinated solvents is potentially toxic.
So, there are many good reasons not to use string mineral acids or chlorinates.
Freestyler is really no different than other 5-brush roll-over or tunnel for that matter.
Since friction does most of the work, a fairly neutral soap (typically alkaline pre-soak) can be used to breakdown dirt and neutral high lubricity soap can be used on brushes (tunnel).
With friction in-bay, only one soap (i.e. alkaline, high lubricity).
That’s why friction rollover is less expensive to operate than touch-less – less chemical, water and energy.
Chlorinates are used to dissolve organics like fats and greases and are also used as intermediates in the production of other stuff like thinner, pesticides, resins and glue.
Exposure to some chlorinated solvents is potentially toxic.
So, there are many good reasons not to use string mineral acids or chlorinates.
Freestyler is really no different than other 5-brush roll-over or tunnel for that matter.
Since friction does most of the work, a fairly neutral soap (typically alkaline pre-soak) can be used to breakdown dirt and neutral high lubricity soap can be used on brushes (tunnel).
With friction in-bay, only one soap (i.e. alkaline, high lubricity).
That’s why friction rollover is less expensive to operate than touch-less – less chemical, water and energy.
Robert
Thank you for your post! What is the difference between using a Low pH friction soap and a High pH friction soap? If it were to be a low pH soap it would be a Benzenesulfonic acid, dodecyl-; and butoxyethanoal mixture
Thank you for your post! What is the difference between using a Low pH friction soap and a High pH friction soap? If it were to be a low pH soap it would be a Benzenesulfonic acid, dodecyl-; and butoxyethanoal mixture
robert roman
Bob Roman
“What is the difference between using a Low pH friction soap and a High pH friction soap”
Most common form of two-phase cleaning is alkaline (hi pH) followed by an acidic (low pH).
Alkaline is effective on fats and grease and acid is effective on mineral-based dirt.
Acid follows alkaline because acid rinses easier whereas alkaline is often used to create clinging foam.
Two-phase creates heat of neutralization at molecular level so it is often used to maximize effectiveness of touch-less cleaning process.
Heavy duty alkaline (cling foam) with high lubricity might contain sodium hydroxide, 2-Butoxyethanol (ether), detergent range alcohol and sodium salt (i.e. sulfonic acid).
If single soap with pH like 12 is used, free rinsing could be accomplished by using drying agent with low pH.
Hope this helps.
Most common form of two-phase cleaning is alkaline (hi pH) followed by an acidic (low pH).
Alkaline is effective on fats and grease and acid is effective on mineral-based dirt.
Acid follows alkaline because acid rinses easier whereas alkaline is often used to create clinging foam.
Two-phase creates heat of neutralization at molecular level so it is often used to maximize effectiveness of touch-less cleaning process.
Heavy duty alkaline (cling foam) with high lubricity might contain sodium hydroxide, 2-Butoxyethanol (ether), detergent range alcohol and sodium salt (i.e. sulfonic acid).
If single soap with pH like 12 is used, free rinsing could be accomplished by using drying agent with low pH.
Hope this helps.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Years ago, I visited several touch-less tunnels in CO and MO that were putting out extremely clean cars, no eyebrows.
However, evidence of HF or ABF was apparent – pungent irritating odor, pot holed concrete floors, etching of equipment and prep staff with signs of dermatitis (slightly dry, flaking skin).
Also, cleaning that well with very invasive chemical like HF or ABF will eventually damage integrity of clearcoat finish.
This can lead to microscopic cracks in paint, premature oxidation and dullness (less gloss and depth).
No need to melt eyebrows off with “hot” chemical when you have rotating top brush to soap up.
However, evidence of HF or ABF was apparent – pungent irritating odor, pot holed concrete floors, etching of equipment and prep staff with signs of dermatitis (slightly dry, flaking skin).
Also, cleaning that well with very invasive chemical like HF or ABF will eventually damage integrity of clearcoat finish.
This can lead to microscopic cracks in paint, premature oxidation and dullness (less gloss and depth).
No need to melt eyebrows off with “hot” chemical when you have rotating top brush to soap up.
With friction eyebrows should not be a problem unless the unit doesn't profile well. As far as chemicals it is almost impossible to remove eyebrows chemically especially those that are rather dense. Your best shot is a low pH product with some solvency. The problem is that not all eyebrows contain the same soils depending on the area so it is difficult to recommend one that might work.
Based on my experience with HF I do not agree that it damages the integrity of a clearcoat but there is no doubt that it can damage equipment especially pumps, nozzles and chemical lines as well as concrete especially when applied at a high dilution ratio. I have actually seen it eat through conveyors and reduce concrete down to gravel. Some pumps and nozzles are more acid resistant than others. As far as many of those other acids listed it depends on the percentage found in the product and how it is diluted and applied. I worked for a major chemical supplier of industrial and car wash chemicals. We did extensive testing on most of those mentioned and found them to be safe in normal percentages of concentration. Anything that contains the fluoride ion is not a chemical I would recommend anyone use although there are still some out there. Unfortunately most products that contain the fluoride ion are probably the best and cheapest low pH cleaners out there but they are also the most hazardous.
Regardless of cleaning ability I would not use any chemical that voids your warranty. Manufacturers vary on excluded chemicals. If you have ones you prefer it should be a serious consideration when selecting equipment. I have seen some operators change their chemicals to those that were excluded when their warranty expired with little or no equipment problems.
Based on my experience with HF I do not agree that it damages the integrity of a clearcoat but there is no doubt that it can damage equipment especially pumps, nozzles and chemical lines as well as concrete especially when applied at a high dilution ratio. I have actually seen it eat through conveyors and reduce concrete down to gravel. Some pumps and nozzles are more acid resistant than others. As far as many of those other acids listed it depends on the percentage found in the product and how it is diluted and applied. I worked for a major chemical supplier of industrial and car wash chemicals. We did extensive testing on most of those mentioned and found them to be safe in normal percentages of concentration. Anything that contains the fluoride ion is not a chemical I would recommend anyone use although there are still some out there. Unfortunately most products that contain the fluoride ion are probably the best and cheapest low pH cleaners out there but they are also the most hazardous.
Regardless of cleaning ability I would not use any chemical that voids your warranty. Manufacturers vary on excluded chemicals. If you have ones you prefer it should be a serious consideration when selecting equipment. I have seen some operators change their chemicals to those that were excluded when their warranty expired with little or no equipment problems.
jprb
Member
I use Turtle Wax HP-07 detergent on my Ryko Soft gloss machines.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Turtle Wax HP-07 contains Sodium Alpha Olefin Sulfonate which is mildly anionic, high-foaming, well-emulsifying surfactant.
SAOS is made primarily from coconut oils, it’s water-soluble and pH is 8.
SAOS is described as surfactant with excellent cleansing and degreasing properties, good wetting effect, foam booster, slight viscosity enhancer and compatible with other surfactants.
So, this would be a good soap for friction roll-over.
SAOS is made primarily from coconut oils, it’s water-soluble and pH is 8.
SAOS is described as surfactant with excellent cleansing and degreasing properties, good wetting effect, foam booster, slight viscosity enhancer and compatible with other surfactants.
So, this would be a good soap for friction roll-over.
cleaning up mud
Member
I didn't think you friction owners needed soap!
jprb
Member
Gotta have a show!
