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Advice on Razor Settings

slash007

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I am not having the best of luck getting cars as clean as I would like using my new Razor. I am using JBS Chemicals for low and Hi PH, the compass series. I wanted to get recommendations on what you guys suggest for dwell time, speed for the presoak passes and any othere relevant settings that might help. Not sure what I should shoot for as far as how the presoak looks when it's applied on the car as well. It seems to hit the whole car and then run down slowly during dwell, but I'm not sure if I need to maybe increase or decrease the air as well. I'll try to shoot a video that I can upload.

Thanks.
 

Waxman

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I use hi / hi on my no touch ( not a razor). 10 sec dwell for each pass. I mix my own soap ( simoniz correct powder and simoniz foam additive) and apply it heavy. I like it to 'paint' the car, meaning good coverage of milky white foamy soap. Seems to work for me.
 

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I am not having the best of luck getting cars as clean as I would like using my new Razor. I am using JBS Chemicals for low and Hi PH, the compass series. I wanted to get recommendations on what you guys suggest for dwell time, speed for the presoak passes and any othere relevant settings that might help. Not sure what I should shoot for as far as how the presoak looks when it's applied on the car as well. It seems to hit the whole car and then run down slowly during dwell, but I'm not sure if I need to maybe increase or decrease the air as well. I'll try to shoot a video that I can upload.

Thanks.
Is it a windshield masking problem, film on all surfaces, does it get better or worse with swings in temp or humidity? What kind of soils do you have I’m your region? Are you using a chemical rep or DIY? Are you applying at 120°. I know the folks on the forum will have a lot to say with a little more information. Keep us posted.
 

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For our Razors we use the chemicals on the richer side of the recommended so there is a good show. In addition we have Soak Time of 10 sec. This being said there is some dirt a touch-free will not clean and will only come off on a friction. Unfortunately you will find a lot of variability between Razor owners due to water and chemicals.

Alternatively, you can call WW tech support as they will give you the numbers they use for their test bay.
 
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slash007

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Thanks for the replies. I've noticed the cleaning issue since my OHD, so it's not new. Wasn't able to tweak as much as the Razor though. Razor only been in for 6 weeks, so not much data, but I've noticed the cleaning issues since day one. Not sure what soil types we have. I am applying at around 100 degrees.

I have never been able to get rid of the masking problems with either machine. Chemicals have been tweaked several times so far via Marco from JBS. He's even sent me different chemicals to try. I see 0 difference on the masking, and the main concern is that the sides show dirt streaks starting about 2/3s of the way down.
 

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Slash we use low ph, low ph on double pass with about 10 sec dwell on each pass. Don’t use a razor but located in WV about 3 hours from you with relatively same weather profile.
 

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I know this is a double - edge sword but if you have a wheel/ rocker blast on the way into your bay, the sides of those cars are wet when the presoak is going on and the chemical concentration will be many times weaker than if it was put on a dry car. But there is the need for a strong wheel and rocker spray in many climates/ conditions in order to get mud, ice or snow off otherwise the presoak would just be sitting on the mud or snow. Dialing up the chems is can help to some extent, but at some point it doesn’t do any more good.
 

slash007

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I do have the power towers on the sides as you enter. I thought the same thing and had disabled the side blasters on my OHD, but had the same issues cleaning in the same location.
 

washnshine

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I do have the power towers on the sides as you enter. I thought the same thing and had disabled the side blasters on my OHD, but had the same issues cleaning in the same location.
Ok - good you tried that. Also - you said you are applying at 100° - that is in the tank probably, but by the time it runs through the lines and hits the car it is quite a bit colder. Maybe warm things up a bit at the tank. It will always drop a lot by the time it hits the car. Also - like waxman said, try two hi pH. Sometimes the soil you have does not need the low pH but rather the longer soak time of all hi pH with 2 passes. JBS is great and I am sure they will work with you.
 

Waxman

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Thanks for the replies. I've noticed the cleaning issue since my OHD, so it's not new. Wasn't able to tweak as much as the Razor though. Razor only been in for 6 weeks, so not much data, but I've noticed the cleaning issues since day one. Not sure what soil types we have. I am applying at around 100 degrees.

I have never been able to get rid of the masking problems with either machine. Chemicals have been tweaked several times so far via Marco from JBS. He's even sent me different chemicals to try. I see 0 difference on the masking, and the main concern is that the sides show dirt streaks starting about 2/3s of the way down.
What about changing nozzle size / degree, pump pressure or HP rinse cycle speed?
 

slash007

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I'm waiting on the rep to get back to me with some things to try, but I am open to trying anything. I did used to have my boiler hotter, but that caused issues with my self serve holding tank hydrominder. I am using a different valve there now that should be able to handle more heat, so I'll turn it up.
 

washnshine

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I know all the touchfree operators know this, but the aspects of touchfree washing are:

Chemistry
Dwell time
Temperature
Impingement

Those are the variables you can control and have to work with and finding the sweet spot is the challenge for every operator.

Don’t change more than one at a time, as you can easily loose track of what is helping things to get better or worse.
 

slash007

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You are correct. I was there today and forgot to up the temp, but dwell time is good and impingement, so I'll up temp then see what chemistry recommendation I get. I feel Chemistry is the biggest of the 4.
 

washnshine

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You are correct. I was there today and forgot to up the temp, but dwell time is good and impingement, so I'll up temp then see what chemistry recommendation I get. I feel Chemistry is the biggest of the 4.
Probably so, and I certainly am not disagreeing with that, but when you get your chemistry just right, a change in any one of those other factors can lessen a quality wash. You know - it is a touchy thing unfortunately!

let us know how it works out. You’ve got a great machine and great chem company - you will get it dialed in.
 

slash007

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Yes, soft water. That is actually the 1st thing that needs to happen or you will never get it right. I raised the water temp by 10 degrees today, but it's raining so we'll see what happens.
 

washnshine

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One last thing for me slash -

Are you using any rain x or super sealer type products? I ask because some of them can seal in dirt and do not wash off easily - making any dirt left even tougher to get off the next wash. You’d see this more with repeat/regular customers but I had to ask.

Some chemical manufacturers actually make a “TF” version of these sealers that does not cure to the paint like the regular version does. Qualchem does it with Lumimaura and Quest does it with Total Shield.
There are probably others
 

slash007

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One last thing for me slash -

Are you using any rain x or super sealer type products? I ask because some of them can seal in dirt and do not wash off easily - making any dirt left even tougher to get off the next wash. You’d see this more with repeat/regular customers but I had to ask.

Some chemical manufacturers actually make a “TF” version of these sealers that does not cure to the paint like the regular version does. Qualchem does it with Lumimaura and Quest does it with Total Shield.
There are probably others
I actually thought about that a couple of weeks ago, so I made sure to scrub my car clean in a SS bay. I waited about 10 days and then washed with the touch free and had the same result.
 
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I would say check all the following.
1. Impingement, get the arm as close as you can, you lose loads of power the further the arm is from the car.
2. Pressure, I would try and be up to about 1,000 psi
3. Speed, you may be running your washing speed too fast to clean
4. Dwell time, 10 secs seems very short, I aim for a minimum of 18 secs
5. Chemical strength. When all the above is done, try increasing the Chem strength
6. I found I had to switch of the entry high pressure blast and just target the bottom couple of inches with water. That pre wet not only causes the Presoak to be diluted, but the soap seems to follow the water runs and not spread on the vehicle.
 

slash007

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I would say check all the following.
1. Impingement, get the arm as close as you can, you lose loads of power the further the arm is from the car.
2. Pressure, I would try and be up to about 1,000 psi
3. Speed, you may be running your washing speed too fast to clean
4. Dwell time, 10 secs seems very short, I aim for a minimum of 18 secs
5. Chemical strength. When all the above is done, try increasing the Chem strength
6. I found I had to switch of the entry high pressure blast and just target the bottom couple of inches with water. That pre wet not only causes the Presoak to be diluted, but the soap seems to follow the water runs and not spread on the vehicle.


All excellent points. For Razor owners, what speed are you guys running your pre soaks at? The manual recommends 90, but I have tried 75 and 80 with no improvement. No point in slowing it down if it's not helping.
 
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