soonermajic
Well-known member
I'm using Magic Clean 3x polish, from my distributor North of Dallas. It does pretty good, but isn't real vibrant. Just wondering what you guys use that gives the most vivid colors?
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What's your best 3x Foam, for LW4000
- Thread starter soonermajic
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soonermajic
Well-known member
whats a CCP?
rph9168
Carwashguy
Depends on what brand you chose as far as how bright it is. I think a good cost effective alternative is to use low pH conditioner or shampoo which would give you additional cleaning and help in drying. I would not recommend using a high pH shampoo or conditioner other than in the beginning of the wash process. The cheapest route would be a traditional high pH shampoo or conditioner. The low pH conditioner would cost more than the high pH conditioner or shampoo but much less than a true polish or foaming clear coat conditioner.
There is a great deal of debate on what a polish is and the definition of a polish. Some say it should provide cleaning and protection while others say according to one of the definitions of a polish that is only has to clean like polishing silver. How you choose to use that term in your marketing is up to you. Personally I think it refers to shine and protection but it is hard to argue that if it just cleans it could also be considered a polish.
There is a great deal of debate on what a polish is and the definition of a polish. Some say it should provide cleaning and protection while others say according to one of the definitions of a polish that is only has to clean like polishing silver. How you choose to use that term in your marketing is up to you. Personally I think it refers to shine and protection but it is hard to argue that if it just cleans it could also be considered a polish.
soonermajic
Well-known member
rph...that just confused me! LOL
Does the polish vs. conditioner , really matter? If the conditioner is about the same price, but is way more vibrant...how bout just use that? I personally think my customers only care about "show" (i.e. color & or smell) when it comes to the 3x foam. With that in mind, what would you guys recommend?
Does the polish vs. conditioner , really matter? If the conditioner is about the same price, but is way more vibrant...how bout just use that? I personally think my customers only care about "show" (i.e. color & or smell) when it comes to the 3x foam. With that in mind, what would you guys recommend?
Probably depends a bit on where and when it goes on during the cycles. If your tri foam goes on towards the end and you sometimes have a hard time rinsing it all off, a polish will help with that, where as a conditioner will make it worse. If it goes on towards the beginning, or you just never have problems rinsing it completely off then a conditioner would probably work for you. We've been back and forth between the two, the vibrant colors of the conditioner looks really nice. Ours also goes on towards the beginning and has plenty of HP to rinse it off. Also a conditioner should certainly be cheaper than a polish.
rph9168
Carwashguy
Does the polish vs. conditioner , really matter? If the conditioner is about the same price, but is way more vibrant...how bout just use that? I personally think my customers only care about "show" (i.e. color & or smell) when it comes to the 3x foam. With that in mind, what would you guys recommend?
Conditioners can be high or low pH. Neither acts like a polish but both cost a lot less. With your concerns in mind I would recommend low pH conditioners with a good fragrance and strong color.
Conditioners can be high or low pH. Neither acts like a polish but both cost a lot less. With your concerns in mind I would recommend low pH conditioners with a good fragrance and strong color.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“I personally think my customers only care about "show" (i.e. color & or smell) when it comes to the 3x foam. With that in mind, what would you guys recommend?”
Hope this clears it up a little.
Polish means to clean and shine using an abrasive. Like brass and silver polish or as in using rubbing compound and a rotary buffer to remove wet sanding marks from car paint and restore the paint’s gloss. After buffing, glaze is used to shine paint. Then wax (i.e. carnauba) is applied to give wet look and protect the paint.
Typically, a paint conditioner is an additive that improves the flow and cover qualities of paint while making spraying easier.
This is from MSDS’s I have.
Simoniz triple foam polish contains alpha olefin sulfonate surfactants - provide outstanding detergency, high compatibility with hard water and good wetting and foaming properties. It contains no polish (no abrasives).
Simoniz triple foam detergent contains same ingredients as Simoniz triple foam polish.
Simoniz triple foam conditioner is low ph soap.
Here, tri-foam is basically three applications of soap. So, detergent yes, condition (depends on definition), polish (I can’t figure out how).
Turtle Wax triple shine conditioner (red, blue or gold) is low ph soap. Their triple shine polish (red, blue or gold) is soap that contains a tiny bit of carnauba wax. It has no triple shine detergent listed.
So, conditioner could mean cleaning the paint. Carnauba can shine but it has no polishing characteristics (no abrasives).
So, if all your customers care about is bubbles, colors and flashing lights, I’d buy the cheapest stuff available that foams up and doesn’t stain the paint.
Many of my clients have reduced emphasis on tri-foam because products that impart hydrophobic effect like Rain-X, ICE, hot wax, etc. have a much higher profit margin.
Hope this clears it up a little.
Polish means to clean and shine using an abrasive. Like brass and silver polish or as in using rubbing compound and a rotary buffer to remove wet sanding marks from car paint and restore the paint’s gloss. After buffing, glaze is used to shine paint. Then wax (i.e. carnauba) is applied to give wet look and protect the paint.
Typically, a paint conditioner is an additive that improves the flow and cover qualities of paint while making spraying easier.
This is from MSDS’s I have.
Simoniz triple foam polish contains alpha olefin sulfonate surfactants - provide outstanding detergency, high compatibility with hard water and good wetting and foaming properties. It contains no polish (no abrasives).
Simoniz triple foam detergent contains same ingredients as Simoniz triple foam polish.
Simoniz triple foam conditioner is low ph soap.
Here, tri-foam is basically three applications of soap. So, detergent yes, condition (depends on definition), polish (I can’t figure out how).
Turtle Wax triple shine conditioner (red, blue or gold) is low ph soap. Their triple shine polish (red, blue or gold) is soap that contains a tiny bit of carnauba wax. It has no triple shine detergent listed.
So, conditioner could mean cleaning the paint. Carnauba can shine but it has no polishing characteristics (no abrasives).
So, if all your customers care about is bubbles, colors and flashing lights, I’d buy the cheapest stuff available that foams up and doesn’t stain the paint.
Many of my clients have reduced emphasis on tri-foam because products that impart hydrophobic effect like Rain-X, ICE, hot wax, etc. have a much higher profit margin.
soonermajic
Well-known member
Rob,
explain how they get a higher profit margin. I thought 3x foam was a nice upsell, & very cheap to purchase? Are not Rain-X ICE, et all, very expensive, & your upsell can't match the profit margin of the 3x foam?
explain how they get a higher profit margin. I thought 3x foam was a nice upsell, & very cheap to purchase? Are not Rain-X ICE, et all, very expensive, & your upsell can't match the profit margin of the 3x foam?
robert roman
Bob Roman
“I thought 3x foam was a nice upsell, & very cheap to purchase?”
It is. I believe tri-foam concept was borrowed from conveyor segment as way to help in-bays achieve higher average ticket.
However, studies show that products like Rain-X total body, ICE and hot wax, etc. will last up to about 30 days.
Compared to these products tri-foam has little value-added besides P.T. Barnum effect – lights, foam, cherry scent.
This is especially so for touch-less because once the pre-soak(s) is hit with high-pressure that’s it for cleaning. Dumping more soap on the car before wax/rinse cycle is redundant.
People will pay a lot for premium protectant because it’s easy to see the product actually works and provides a benefit – superior water beading, dryer car, shinier paint and smoother to touch.
Most of operators I know are getting between $3.00 and $5.00 and some get $6.00 for hot wax.
I have some clients in blue collar markets where 25 percent of customers buy at $4.00. This increases average sales by $1.00. $4.00 - $1.00 cost equal $3.00 per car to net operating income.
It is. I believe tri-foam concept was borrowed from conveyor segment as way to help in-bays achieve higher average ticket.
However, studies show that products like Rain-X total body, ICE and hot wax, etc. will last up to about 30 days.
Compared to these products tri-foam has little value-added besides P.T. Barnum effect – lights, foam, cherry scent.
This is especially so for touch-less because once the pre-soak(s) is hit with high-pressure that’s it for cleaning. Dumping more soap on the car before wax/rinse cycle is redundant.
People will pay a lot for premium protectant because it’s easy to see the product actually works and provides a benefit – superior water beading, dryer car, shinier paint and smoother to touch.
Most of operators I know are getting between $3.00 and $5.00 and some get $6.00 for hot wax.
I have some clients in blue collar markets where 25 percent of customers buy at $4.00. This increases average sales by $1.00. $4.00 - $1.00 cost equal $3.00 per car to net operating income.
soonermajic
Well-known member
Gotcha. However, there is NO WAY, the folks in my depressed town are going to pay $3 & UP, for those premium services. They already complain about paying $8 for 2 pass Pre-Soak, hp rinse, 3x foam, wax/ccp, sfr, dryer !
In an affluent area, I could definitely see the advantages that you listed.
In an affluent area, I could definitely see the advantages that you listed.
robert roman
Bob Roman
“…..depressed town…..They already complain about paying $8…..”
That’s biased. Everyone, rational that is, would like a lower price than a higher price for something.
Most people complain when they are not satisfied. Wait is too long, not clean enough, too much excess water, spots, then price is questioned – am I getting my money’s worth.
That’s biased. Everyone, rational that is, would like a lower price than a higher price for something.
Most people complain when they are not satisfied. Wait is too long, not clean enough, too much excess water, spots, then price is questioned – am I getting my money’s worth.
soonermajic
Well-known member
So, are you guys saying that 3x foam conditioner, is more vibrant, than the polish?
My 3x foam comes on right before the wax/ccp, followed by SFR & then dryers. Would putting 3x foam on as a conditioner, still work with this process?
My 3x foam comes on right before the wax/ccp, followed by SFR & then dryers. Would putting 3x foam on as a conditioner, still work with this process?
soonermajic
Well-known member
soonermajic
Well-known member
My 3x foam low ph Conditioner is followed immediately by the ccp/wax rinse.
What about switching to JBS 3x Glo-Foam Polish? Kleen-Rite says it's brightest out there...!
What about switching to JBS 3x Glo-Foam Polish? Kleen-Rite says it's brightest out there...!
Soonermajic, I use JBS Glow Foam Polish on my automatics and I am very happy with their 3x foam product. The JBS GLow foam polish has better foaming characteristics then the their glow foam wax and brighter colors then their Lo pH glow foam. Also the dye they use can glow in the dark and it washes off of your hands and clothes.
I use the blue Coral, now armor all, Low Ph conditioner thru the tri foam pods. I put it on after wash and before med pressure wax, then followed by spot free. I put it on kind of wet (less foamy) so it rinses better. It still gets hung up in the driver side mirror or aftermarket window shades, police lights, or etc. The colors are ok but I'd like to see them more vibrant. I guess i could increase the tip size but have been reluctant to try that since rinsing is a problem sometimes. My cars do come out looking great so there's been no rush to change.
FWIW I dont like the tri foam pass. The full body coverage is awful on its best day. Right now our tri foam wash (top package) is $10. I have plans to add a fast med pressure rinse pass after the tri foam, then a low pressure wax pass with a premium "polish", followed by a medium pressure "protectant", then spot free at a $12 purchase price. This will add 2 passes on a wash cycle but will allow me to put the tri foam on heavier for more show, get a real good low pressure wax product on the car afterwards, and of course...charge more.
FWIW I dont like the tri foam pass. The full body coverage is awful on its best day. Right now our tri foam wash (top package) is $10. I have plans to add a fast med pressure rinse pass after the tri foam, then a low pressure wax pass with a premium "polish", followed by a medium pressure "protectant", then spot free at a $12 purchase price. This will add 2 passes on a wash cycle but will allow me to put the tri foam on heavier for more show, get a real good low pressure wax product on the car afterwards, and of course...charge more.
