Self serve presoak siphon

[Bob']

I noticed all of my self serve bays when off are bleeding out my presoak slowly. This presoak uses a well pump to pump the presoak from the reservoir out to the bays. Each bay has a solenoid in it before the boom to control the flow of presoak through the wand to each bay. Its difficult to believe each solenoid in all 4 bays are defective to allow a siphon to start. Any suggestions on where to look?

 

[Keno]

It's under pressure before the solenoids, so very possible that a little is squeaking by all of them, especially if you are using a caustic chemical and/or the solenoids have some age on them. It's not a siphon, it's under pressure

 

[Bob']

Thank you for replying. The pump only turns on when a bay calls for it to come on. Then all 4 bays are pressurized, but only the bay that calls for it opens the solenoid in that bay. It is leaking without the pump being on. I don't understand how the presoak can flow by the solenoids with no significant pressure. Just siphon head pressure which is probably 3-4 feet vertical rise. You are correct in that the solenoids are old though. Maybe enough stray voltage to open all the solenoids slightly? I am grasping. I will check voltage out to the solenoids tomorrow when I am back.

 

[Keno]

The solenoid seats will wear over time and not create a perfect seal anymore, this process is sped up if using a caustic chemical, which presoaks can be.

Does your well pump not have a small bladder tank to maintain pressure?

 

[Blanco]

Is it a solenoid block for the presoak? If so pull the plungers clean them and stretch the spring a little bit. Im assuming when you say there all leaking its only when another bay is using presoak to run the pump. There not all leaking 24/7 right?

 

[Bob']

The solenoid seats will wear over time and not create a perfect seal anymore, this process is sped up if using a caustic chemical, which presoaks can be.

Does your well pump not have a small bladder tank to maintain pressure?

It does not have a bladder tank. Just cycles on and off when a bay calls for it.

 

[Bob']

Is it a solenoid block for the presoak? If so pull the plungers clean them and stretch the spring a little bit. Im assuming when you say there all leaking its only when another bay is using presoak to run the pump. There not all leaking 24/7 right?

Very low flow leak 24/7 with the pump off. Started a few weeks ago. Just noticed it today that it is slowly leaking. Noticed over the last few weeks when I wash a bay down on rinse the first second or two that comes out is presoak. Then today it dawned on me why.

 

[Blanco]

Very low flow leak 24/7 with the pump off. Started a few weeks ago. Just noticed it today that it is slowly leaking. Noticed over the last few weeks when I wash a bay down on rinse the first second or two that comes out is presoak. Then today it dawned on me why.

Pull the outgoing discharge lines off the solenoids in your back room and see if the solenoids are leaking.

 

[Randy]

Do what Blanco has told you. But first get out the volt meter and check to see if there is power the solenoid valves. Then pull the discharge lines off the solenoids, if they are leaking take the solenoid valve apart, looking for debris and take a look at the seat of the solenoid valve. Pictures are always nice.

 

[Bob']

The solenoids are in the bays above the booms. The only way the wands could be leaking is if the solenoids are open slightly probably from age. Wierd multiple solenoids failed at roughly the same time. Only other option is low voltage out to the solenoids opening them slightly. Not likely either. But I have a couple things to check now. Thank you for your help! This forum is great!

 

[edredtop]

The solenoids are in the bays above the booms.

Do you use check valves after the solenoids?

Weird multiple solenoids failed at roughly the same time.

Not if you've recently changed your soap brand / pH levels.

 

[Bob']

Do what Blanco has told you. But first get out the volt meter and check to see if there is power the solenoid valves. Then pull the discharge lines off the solenoids, if they are leaking take the solenoid valve apart, looking for debris and take a look at the seat of the solenoid valve. Pictures are always nice.

Do you use check valves after the solenoids?

Not if you've recently changed your soap brand / pH levels.

Yes there is a check valve right after the solenoid but before the boom.

 

[Blanco]

I don’t know why they would have put solenoids in the bay but regardless of where they are we’re still back at pulling the discharge lines off and seeing if they are actually leaking.

 

[Bob']

I don’t know why they would have put solenoids in the bay but regardless of where they are we’re still back at pulling the discharge lines off and seeing if they are actually leaking.

Pros and cons to everything. Cons - Its alot more abusive environment on the solenoid and its alot more difficult to get to the solenoids in the bay, pros are when a customer turns on that fluid it gets on their car quicker. It has to be a solenoid issue. The thing with it being high in the bay is as soon as I loosen the fitting on it, it will loose the prime in the siphon and stop leaking. I think I will order a new solenoid for a bay and test that. That will address worn seat or stuff hung in it. They are very old anyway. What are your thoughts on that? And thank you for your continued help.

 

[Blanco]

Your solenoids should be moved to the back room where there are accessible, easy to work, and not in corrosive environment. So like right now it’s too hard to even trouble shoot with the way it’s setup.

The fluid will not get to a car any quicker having the solenoids in bay. That is what the purpose of having a manifold with check valves above your boom is for. 1 to keep your HP from blowing out your LP lines and 2 to keep the LP ready to inject right at the boom.

If you take the discharge lines off you’re not going to lose any prime. It’s no different then opening and closing a solenoid when it connected. I’d take the discharge lines off. See if it leaks. If it does NOT then that’s not your problem. If it does leak then pull the coil off. If it is still leaking then you know it’s the solenoid. If it stops leaking when you pull the coil off then you know you have a power issue.

 

[edredtop]

Pros and cons to everything. Cons - Its alot more abusive environment on the solenoid and its alot more difficult to get to the solenoids in the bay, pros are when a customer turns on that fluid it gets on their car quicker. It has to be a solenoid issue. The thing with it being high in the bay is as soon as I loosen the fitting on it, it will loose the prime in the siphon and stop leaking. I think I will order a new solenoid for a bay and test that. That will address worn seat or stuff hung in it. They are very old anyway. What are your thoughts on that? And thank you for your continued help.

You can try for an immediate result by stretching the spring like Blanco said and it'll give you an opportunity to check the plunger, seat, and seal for wear or debris.
Also, if you've had a recent contamination issue over your chemical mixing tank (dirt, saw dust, etc..), it may have been sent downstream to all bays as well (unless you use a screen on your pick-up.)