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Vacuum safety / Is this an industry wide concern?

edredtop

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A few questions to ponder...
How big is the gap between your vacuum dome and your vacuum?
Does the attached picture concern you?
Can an adult or child place their hand past the gap into the motor area, and if so, does that worry you?
Can they reach the spinning motors?
Can those curious hands pull on the wiring or touch the uninsulated spade connectors at the motors?
Can they reach the light bulbs and spin them loose leaving a light fixture in a dangerous condition for the next set of curious hands?

I recently accepted a sales invitation/promotion by a well known car wash supplier to refresh our vacuums.
They were promoting new decals, dome covers, hoses, claws, etc. and we thought that would be a great idea as we had just purchased a bunch of used vacuums from Car Wash Consignment.
We decided to upgrade five vacuums that had 20" domes by tossing the extremely faded covers in favor of new ones and add a light kit.
We soon discovered that the supplier only sells 24" domes that require an adapter ( 4 per vac) to get them to fit.
Ok, cool. Let's do it.
When we received the parts we found that the adapters and the way the domes were made, created a gap that exceeded 2" all the way around the inside of the dome.
The supplier was notified that the parts created a safety hazard, and cautioned them about our experience.
Their reaction thus far has been indifference.
Needless to say we sent the domes back (at a round trip shipping cost of $500) and have installed 20" stainless steel domes that produce a very close fit.

My letter to them stated in part that:

"As owner/operators, it is incumbent upon us to identify and address safety issues that may arise, including any inherent design flaws or those from a careless adult to a curious child. With that in mind, it has been my experience in the past 2 decades as an operator that parents will pull up to a vacuum, unload the kid(s) on the vacuum island side, turn their backs on their children and proceed to clean and vacuum while only periodically checking on their children. It is at this time the children will touch, pull, pick, and play with our equipment as you can well imagine. This is an area that needs to be one of our safest in my opinion because this is when the kids are generally out of the car and unsupervised."

I also wrote:
"I was excited to purchase these items in an effort to make an attractive vacuum, not an attractive nuisance."

It makes me sick to think this dangerous condition may exist all over the country and that some unsuspecting soul (our customers or their kids) could be harmed or worse.

Since most of us are only familiar with the equipment we own and service, it would be incredibly interesting to hear what you all think about this situation.

**note: The attached picture does not depict the mentioned adapters, but illustrates a vacuum with a sizable gap. Is this acceptable?
 

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Earl Weiss

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How big is the gap between your vacuum dome and your vacuum?
Does the attached picture concern you?
Can an adult or child place their hand past the gap into the motor area, and if so, does that worry you?
Can they reach the spinning motors?
Can those curious hands pull on the wiring or touch the uninsulated spade connectors at the motors?
Can they reach the light bulbs and spin them loose leaving a light fixture in a dangerous condition for the next set of curious hands?
Dos not concern me because my gap is not that large and if I did have a gap that large and it did concern me there might be some sort of chicken wire I could install.

I don.t think a small child would be tall enough to reach inside there.

I don't think there are any exposed spinning parts on a motor to cause an issue

Don't have any screw in Light Bulbs and when I did it would take some contortions to reach them thru the gap.
 

Dan kamsickas

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That gap is awful from an appearance standpoint, but is not unsafe. There has to be enough of a gap to provide enough air flow to prevent overheating or it will not pass an electrical safety inspection without burning up motors and/or melting poly domes. This kind of thing happens all the time when someone has old vacuums that were either made by a company that no longer exists or is a model that has been long obsoleted by a manufacturer and someone is trying to make an available dome work on an old vacuum that probably should be replaced to begin with.
 

I.B. Washincars

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old vacuum that probably should be replaced to begin with.
Why? Vacuums are virtually unchanged for the last 30 or so years (excluding fancy combos). They are almost exclusively stainless steel and all of the other parts remain virtually unchanged. Why should any standard vac be replaced, when it can be renewed for a fraction of the cost?
 

Dan kamsickas

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Why? Vacuums are virtually unchanged for the last 30 or so years (excluding fancy combos). They are almost exclusively stainless steel and all of the other parts remain virtually unchanged. Why should any standard vac be replaced, when it can be renewed for a fraction of the cost?
You left out this part:

This kind of thing happens all the time when someone has old vacuums that were either made by a company that no longer exists or is a model that has been long obsoleted by a manufacturer
Not all vacuums were created the same and some parts no longer exist. It's not a matter of "if" the vacuum will need to be replaced but when.......and "when" never gets cheaper. I get calls from people all the time that are spending way too much time and effort looking for parts that no longer exist. My favorite is the "I really need these parts. My vac(s) have been down for a month". In my opinion, having an "Out of Order" sign on anything for a month is far more expensive than a new vac.
 

edredtop

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That gap is awful from an appearance standpoint, but is not unsafe. There has to be enough of a gap to provide enough air flow to prevent overheating or it will not pass an electrical safety inspection without burning up motors and/or melting poly domes. This kind of thing happens all the time when someone has old vacuums that were either made by a company that no longer exists or is a model that has been long obsoleted by a manufacturer and someone is trying to make an available dome work on an old vacuum that probably should be replaced to begin with.
Hi Dan,
Thanks for the reply. I'd like to explore your points a bit more if we could.
First, I'd like to reiterate, it was not me seeking out parts for an old horse, It was my supplier inviting me through a promotion to "Refresh My Vacuums" with new parts that were not brand or model specific. They simply stated by using the provided adapters, one could attach a 24" dome to a 20" vacuum. That's pretty straight forward in my book.

I can't imagine tossing a vacuum in good shape when all one needs is power, a good (GinSan ;)) timer, a coin acceptor, maybe a 24 volt transformer, gaskets, motors, a place to put it, and of course, customers.

It's those customers that I'm worried about.

I understand that for a vacuum to function correctly, it needs an air gap.
But what I'm trying to explore here is what is a safe air gap to protect our customers and their children?
A JE Adams 9200 vacuum, for example has an air gap between the tank and dome, that is less than one inch (7/8" if I remember correctly) and that seems to be a safe and effective design.
I have attached some pictures of my 13 year old nephew who's 5' 7" and 160 lbs. attempting to penetrate a 7/8" gap with his hand. He can't. He barely gets his fingers in there.
But when I increase that gap to 2" he is able to access everything inside the dome which alarms the hell out of me. We have to look at our equipment through the eyes of a child before we install or alter a piece of equipment in my opinion. It is my belief there is no safety inspection that would allow this condition to exist.
I appreciate your comments and any additional observations you may have.
 

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Dan kamsickas

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I can't speak of your vacs buy there really isn't anything under the dome that isn't finger safe if you're using the proper products. It appears someone offered you a dome that is not the proper part for your vacuum cans.
 

edredtop

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I can't speak of your vacs buy there really isn't anything under the dome that isn't finger safe if you're using the proper products. It appears someone offered you a dome that is not the proper part for your vacuum cans.
Indeed! We agree on "not the proper parts," but how does one know that when the parts are advertised in a way that is not model or brand specific? That is the purpose of this thread.
It's also important to identify if a vacuum has an inherent design flaw that allows this hazard to exist as well.

However, we disagree on the safety of the items under the dome.
110 VAC is not "finger safe."
Spinning motors are not "finger safe."
A curious child pulling on wiring, more than likely connected by wire nuts or uninsulated spade connectors, is not safe.

Most vacuum motors are sold with unprotected leads that are not "finger safe." (see attached)
Dan, I don't believe you for a second when you say, us, as an industry should not be concerned about the items under a vacuum dome because they're "finger safe." I just don't think we should be so cavalier about the safety of our customers.
Who among us hasn't broken a crispy motor cover when replacing a set of brushes leaving the fan exposed? (see attached)
What if a fastener vibrates loose and the motor is able to be pushed on it's side?(see attached) Those impellers are mean looking.
Lock nuts are great, but they do fail.
These are the types of things I'm asking anyone reading this thread to consider if they have a large gap at their dome AND the suppliers facilitating this dangerous condition. Do we need a customer to have a life changing injury or a fatality to change our way of thinking?

Whenever we service a vacuum, the first thing we do is cut the power to protect ourselves, do we not?
Why would we allow access to an area we ourselves wouldn't touch without cutting the power?
 

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Burky

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Who cuts power to service vac motors? Just don’t touch the wrong side of the relay. 🤷‍♂️
 

edredtop

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Who cuts power to service vac motors? Just don’t touch the wrong side of the relay. 🤷‍♂️
You've obviously never bumped your vacuum in the middle of a service and knocked a coin loose from the accepter.
Who said white men can't jump?
That's a dangerous long term strategy if you do that.
Safety first!
 

PaulLovesJamie

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Does the attached picture concern you?
I think the risk is low, but yeah, I agree with you, I would not install vac domes with a 2" gap.
Sooner or later somebody will put their hand up in there.
Or more likely, cram in a dead cat or some other flammable items.
 

MEP001

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Real safety concerns:
There are vacuum motors that don't have a shield over the fan.
Multiple times in my years, I have worked on a vac that was wired backwards and the exposed spades are live all the time on one side, and they are live when the vac is on.
A small hand could remove a wire nut on a live line, or get fingers into a barrier strip. If they grab onto power with their arm grounded against the cannister, when they get hit with electricity their hand could curl up and they'd be stuck there getting cooked.
Kids mess with everything.
 

Earl Weiss

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Who among us hasn't broken a crispy motor cover when replacing a set of brushes leaving the fan exposed? (see attached)
I would be in that group - never left a fan exposed but then again I don't replace brushes.
 

Earl Weiss

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What if a fastener vibrates loose and the motor is able to be pushed on it's side?(see attached) Those impellers are mean looking.
Lock nuts are great, but they do fail.
I don't recall seeing a lock nut fail and I don't think I have ever seen one on it's side under a dome. Not sure there is even room for this to happen with the dome on.
 

Earl Weiss

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I have attached some pictures of my 13 year old nephew who's 5' 7" and 160 lbs. attempting to penetrate a 7/8" gap with his hand. He can't. He barely gets his fingers in there.
If a 13 year old this size would do this I suspect he would have met his end long ago by encountering other lurking dangers like crossing the street. or sticking stuff in electrical outlets.
 

Greg Pack

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Looks like a great place for a bird to build a nest too. Perhaps you could make a guard out of something like hardware cloth.

I don't bother to kill the power on vacuums when I work on them. It can make things interesting, and I've been zapped many times. Other than a loss of taste and smell I'm still ok
 

MEP001

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I don't bother to kill the power on vacuums when I work on them. It can make things interesting, and I've been zapped many times. Other than a loss of taste and smell I'm still ok
Same here, the zap doesn't really hurt, it just startles me where I pull back and scrape my hand on something sharp.
 

edredtop

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If a 13 year old this size would do this I suspect he would have met his end long ago by encountering other lurking dangers like crossing the street. or sticking stuff in electrical outlets.
Don't cut the power when servicing a vacuum but ridicule a kid that sticks things in an electrical outlet?
You wanna explain the difference there sparky?

Here's a link to an electrical contractor forum page that some may or may not find interesting.
Or this link ..... They appear to take this topic a bit more seriously than some of us here.

The photographs were illustrating that if a 13 year old that's the size of an adult can get their hand in there, any human 36" or taller can too.
Remember, this is about a large air gap between the dome and the can and the potential dangers it could pose to our customers.
 
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