Have a Lazer 4000 that when washing a car only. While going down the drivers side of the car it gets to the rear and then over rotates striking the side pole. However, it never does this on manual mode. Been fighting this for a week. It may wash five cars or thirty cars and then it happens. Never when I am there. Also, it always at same place. Thank You
Need a little guidance Lazer 4000
- Thread starter Westwood
- Start date
madscientist
Member
Sounds like it could be your right limit prox switch and/or prox cord. Does it happen to the first customer to use the wash after a long period of being idle? Like first thing in the morning?
pcb
Leprechaun Car Wash
I had that problem for about 4 months and after changing everything I could think of it wound up being the bar that reads the pulses.
It seems to be very random. But I have never been there when it happens. I do know that today I ran eight thru with not one issue. I have no leaks above, all sensors light up, I have checked wiring for loose connections. Today I cleaned cams and readjusted sensors to cam.
madscientist
Member
pcb is talking about the pulse bar. There are two of them. They are located inside the bridge, on the exit side, facing the entrance side. These bars are the ones that are read by your x30 prox switch. If it was a pulse bar problem the symptoms would be similar.
The issue I am suggesting is different and involves the right limit switch. If this switch is faulty, it can very slowly build up a charge. When the bay is used somewhat frequently, there is no noticeable issue. When the bay sits idle for a long period of time, this very slow build results in a right limit switch that is fully charged. If this happens, then the next customer begins the wash process with a fully charged right limit switch. This switch is ignored by the Lasermind until the bridge reaches the rear of the vehicle, rotates to 180, and then begins its pass along the rear of the vehicle. As soon as it begins this rear pass, it detects a fully charged right limit switch, stops because it thinks it is at the right limit, and rotates. Since it is on the left side, it rotates into the T Bar. What you see when you show up is what looks like an over-rotation of the arch at the rear driver's side. The fault will probably show as an arch rotate fail because the rotation was impeded by the T-Bar, but it is the faulty location of the rotation that is the problem.
The issue I am suggesting is different and involves the right limit switch. If this switch is faulty, it can very slowly build up a charge. When the bay is used somewhat frequently, there is no noticeable issue. When the bay sits idle for a long period of time, this very slow build results in a right limit switch that is fully charged. If this happens, then the next customer begins the wash process with a fully charged right limit switch. This switch is ignored by the Lasermind until the bridge reaches the rear of the vehicle, rotates to 180, and then begins its pass along the rear of the vehicle. As soon as it begins this rear pass, it detects a fully charged right limit switch, stops because it thinks it is at the right limit, and rotates. Since it is on the left side, it rotates into the T Bar. What you see when you show up is what looks like an over-rotation of the arch at the rear driver's side. The fault will probably show as an arch rotate fail because the rotation was impeded by the T-Bar, but it is the faulty location of the rotation that is the problem.
pgrzes
Active member
Check all your connections in your trolley box!! I had a similiar problem on my HV And it was a jumper in trolley box that was corroded and hard to find. Only had 2 or 3 strands of wire left, put in a new jumper cleaned and restuffed all the connector pins with dielectric grease and things worked fine.
JGinther
Zip-tie engineer
I would definitely check madscientists suggestion. I had the same thing happen and it was driving me nuts. It was extremely intermittent and only happened on first car after periods of non-use. I was barking up the wrong tree for a while until I finally got a video of it. Thats when I actually saw the arch rotate to the correct position, move a couple of inches toward the passenger side, stop, then rotate again. That was when I realized it wasn't actually a rotation problem. Replaced the right limit prox and the problem has been gone since...
Thank You for all the replies. I have now changed the right limit switch, cable leads test fine. Changed all three eye on the arch, cables fine. Washed cars all day yesterday. Second car this morning, over-rotate hitting t-bar. Attendant was present. Don't know what to do. Hate to just shut it down as I have no idea what to do next. besides it might wash the rest of the year. Any ideas throw them out, please.
So it's rotating an extra time? If it rotated just once at the back of the car, you'd be right as rain, but then one more rotation would make it hit the driver side t bar. Are you using the virtual treadle upgrade, or do you still have the treadle?
madscientist
Member
Westwood,
I was really hoping that you would have this fixed by now. I'm sure you were too. Since your attendant was present when this fault occurred, can you find out one important piece of information? Was it Situation A or B?
A - The arch travels down the driver's side of the car, stops at the back left corner of the car, then over-rotates to 270 degrees into the T-Bar.
B - The arch travels down the driver's side of the car, stops at the back left corner of the car, rotates correctly to 180 degrees, begins its travel across the back of the car but almost immediately stops, then rotates to 270 degrees and hits the T-Bar because it is still near the back left of the car.
Option A leads us to a rotation issue. Option B leads us away from a rotation issue.
As others have mentioned, you should certainly check the pulse bar and x30 prox. Those things seem unlikely to me, though. When I'm having pulse bar or x30 issues the trolley stops and rotates in random places while moving from left to right, like in the middle of the hood or trunk. Since that's usually an intermittent problem at first, it can happen while travelling across the front of the car or the back. The same is true for an arch rotate problem. If it is an intermittent arch rotate problem, chances are that it would occur randomly at different spots. Your issue is occurring at the same spot every time, which tells us it's likely a location issue.
It's important to find out which situation is occurring (A or B from above).
I was really hoping that you would have this fixed by now. I'm sure you were too. Since your attendant was present when this fault occurred, can you find out one important piece of information? Was it Situation A or B?
A - The arch travels down the driver's side of the car, stops at the back left corner of the car, then over-rotates to 270 degrees into the T-Bar.
B - The arch travels down the driver's side of the car, stops at the back left corner of the car, rotates correctly to 180 degrees, begins its travel across the back of the car but almost immediately stops, then rotates to 270 degrees and hits the T-Bar because it is still near the back left of the car.
Option A leads us to a rotation issue. Option B leads us away from a rotation issue.
As others have mentioned, you should certainly check the pulse bar and x30 prox. Those things seem unlikely to me, though. When I'm having pulse bar or x30 issues the trolley stops and rotates in random places while moving from left to right, like in the middle of the hood or trunk. Since that's usually an intermittent problem at first, it can happen while travelling across the front of the car or the back. The same is true for an arch rotate problem. If it is an intermittent arch rotate problem, chances are that it would occur randomly at different spots. Your issue is occurring at the same spot every time, which tells us it's likely a location issue.
It's important to find out which situation is occurring (A or B from above).
I want to thank everyone who offered assistance in this matter. We are up and running now and have not had any issues. We replaced the X30 proxy and the complete cable, both of them last Friday. Thanks again.
Ontario Car Wash
Member
Mines doing the same thing lately....
Always happens first car of the day around 730am. Goes down driver side and when it turns to go to back of car it over rotates and hits the t bar. Same spot every time. So every morning i have been taking the trolly to middle and spinning around a few times to see if it happens most mornings its ok. Some mornings first time around arch goes from pointing out the entrance to missing its next position and spins around to home. Then after that it, it performs as it should. By me doing this every morning before anyone gets there it seems to remedy the problem for the day and works fine unless machine sets idle for many of hours and then may get one later in the day on technically the first car for hours then fine again. Ive changed all x151617 and cords, all light up if u test with screwdriver in jo and arch but doesnt stop at the 180 position first car in am. x16 is not staying on , right limit looks ok and not on. error is 1st pass 180 arch rotate fail, resulting in impact. Im going to watch now to see if it is creeping like you say to the right and then turning again and im not noticing. I do notice theres alot of play in the straight swivel and it is leaking. Any help thanks keep ya posted. Great thread
Also will check the x30 will this be effected i disabled my sonars last year and just run the machine to the r/l limits at this time and has worked fine for over a year just because havent had time to replace sonars.
Thanks again.
In my log ive kept i notice it always happens on a rainy night or when alot of moisture in the air is that just crazy or would it have something to do because always works fine on dry mornings.
Only thing i can conclude is its always the first car of the day or like i said if i get there early enough to trick it and same place. In the morning when i test once in a while it will rotate just past 180 and then when i push the button it will rotate to home and work fine. Or it will miss 180 all together from 90 to home.
Always happens first car of the day around 730am. Goes down driver side and when it turns to go to back of car it over rotates and hits the t bar. Same spot every time. So every morning i have been taking the trolly to middle and spinning around a few times to see if it happens most mornings its ok. Some mornings first time around arch goes from pointing out the entrance to missing its next position and spins around to home. Then after that it, it performs as it should. By me doing this every morning before anyone gets there it seems to remedy the problem for the day and works fine unless machine sets idle for many of hours and then may get one later in the day on technically the first car for hours then fine again. Ive changed all x151617 and cords, all light up if u test with screwdriver in jo and arch but doesnt stop at the 180 position first car in am. x16 is not staying on , right limit looks ok and not on. error is 1st pass 180 arch rotate fail, resulting in impact. Im going to watch now to see if it is creeping like you say to the right and then turning again and im not noticing. I do notice theres alot of play in the straight swivel and it is leaking. Any help thanks keep ya posted. Great thread
Also will check the x30 will this be effected i disabled my sonars last year and just run the machine to the r/l limits at this time and has worked fine for over a year just because havent had time to replace sonars.
Thanks again.
In my log ive kept i notice it always happens on a rainy night or when alot of moisture in the air is that just crazy or would it have something to do because always works fine on dry mornings.
Only thing i can conclude is its always the first car of the day or like i said if i get there early enough to trick it and same place. In the morning when i test once in a while it will rotate just past 180 and then when i push the button it will rotate to home and work fine. Or it will miss 180 all together from 90 to home.
Ontario Car Wash
Member
After watching videos it is not trying to move right. Its getting to back of car on driver side and from what i see it misses 180 and rolls into 270 and hits the t bar i beleive if t bar wasnt there it would try to come to -0-. thanks but all arch x1151617 new and coming on when in manual would the slop in swivel cause this i think it would happen more often besides 1st one in the day. Almost feel like its holding a charge like mentioned somewhere and by me tricking it in am its discharged and then fine. Was happening once a month to once a week to more often now.
Ontario Car Wash
Member
Green festoon yellow number 10 going x17 from j4 to J2 was pancake in the festoon holder which would make sense why I would get Arch rotate first thing in the wash but once electricity started going through it it was okay. How I realized it was I set my phone on video in front of the Jo box when I spun the machine around luckily it Arch rotated in x17 blinked and x15 stayed on in 180 position.
Taped piece of metal in front of x17 and shook the festoon while video recording and it was x17 blinking so just ran jumper wire from j4 to J2.
Thanks
Taped piece of metal in front of x17 and shook the festoon while video recording and it was x17 blinking so just ran jumper wire from j4 to J2.
Thanks
Ontario Car Wash
Member
Completely different post but I'd like to replace my gearbox on my gantry anybody have any luck with just grabbing a Wash world high velocity gearbox and motor do they fit in universally. Thanks
