Laser 4000 Low Pressure Pushing Me Over The Edge

[madscientist]

Can anybody give me suggestions?

For the past few months my low pressure cycles have looked more and more "streaky", causing me to raise the air to overhead up to it's current level around 95 psi. it's way too high, and is more foam than liquid for my liking. after a lot of thought and even more desperation i've worked on/replaced the following:

-lp unloader
-all injectors/tips
-danfoss valves
-the 3/8 in fXf check valve at the bottom of the lp manifold
-the guts of the foamer tube
-the air regulator/guage to the arch
-the lp guage
-the lp solution pump (sta-rite)
-nozzles are less than 4 months old, but are the next thing on my list

city water pressure does not appear to have changed, but the storage in the water heater should minimize any volume issues.

is it possible that the hp check valve up top is difficult enough to open that the lp volume is restricted, but not enough to cause the relief valve to open on hp cycles? thanks in advance to anyone who can jump in here.

 

[madscientist]

I should add that the products look a little better by the end of the pass than they do at the beginning.

Is it possible that I got a less than perfect set of nozzles?

 

[whitescout]

I would check to see if the strainer in the tank is blocked, and is starving the pump. Also, have you checked the check valves on the manifold? One or more of these could be bad, and you could be pushing water/soap back past them.

 

[lag]

In front of the foamer is a check valve (after the check valves for the LP functions). Try replacing it. I have had that one many times go bad ,and cause streaking of the soap etc. We use poly line to connect our air at the LP manifold ,to the bay. I have also had the poly line have pin holes in it and cause the streaking.

Nozzles wont cause the problem you are having.

 

[madscientist]

whitescout,

thanks for the respomse. i have checked the check valves, and they are good. the hot water comes directly from the hot water heater, so maybe i'll have to confirm that the flow from there is still what it used to be.

lag,


thanks. the only other check valve i have up there is the one that the poly tubing line goes through. for some reason (????) i haven't checked that one. i'll check that and then replace the tubing. seems like a good possibility. thanks again.

 

[Mike]

Check your water hardness. Should be 0

What pressue is the lp pump running at? It should be running at about 175PSI, if it gets below 160 it will cause incosistant chemcial draw.

Check the foamer pad in the overhead manifold, it is located in the section between the lp hookups and the 3/4 inch check valve. If it is pushed to one end it can restrict flow.

Check the 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch checkvalves on the overhead, if they are leaking it can force water into the chem lines and dilute the mixture.

Another thing, do a volume test on your soap, make sure the injector is drawing the recommended amount of chem per car. Typical volumes should be listed on the chemical drum or the instructions on how to set up what ever chemical you are using. If it is not drawing the recommended you need to check the tip size or possably the injector.

hope this helps

 

[ken-pro]

I have had this happen on a few of my customer's Washworld machines (Very similar to 4000). Sometimes the high pressure regulator on the pump is leaking, allowing water to flow backwards into the float tank - It might sound totally unrelated, but there is no check valve in the high pressure line from the pump stand to the overhead manifold - If the regulator is leaking, then the LP can actually push product backwards back to the pump station - it takes longer, or becomes impossible for the LP system to pressurize the arch properly. The telltale of this is soap residue in the main water tank on the pump station, or unable to set the high pressure to 1000 PSI.

 

[whitescout]

After reading lag's post, I think that he could be on to something there, and sparked a thought concerning whether your air solenoid is fully opening, or opening at all. I would disconnect the airline on the outlet side of the solenoid and turn the output on, to see if you are getting flow. I would also check to see if you have any leaks in the air line from the solenoid to the manifold.

ken-pro mention a leaky regulator, I would check the regulator, to ensure you are not pushing water back into the tank, and also check for any leaks on the outlet side of the pump.

 

[jcollins]

air check valve

Most all possible suspects have been listed. One of the easiest and fastest suspected part to check would be the air check valve on the overhead manifold. Unplug the airline and take off the check valve and see if you can blow through it backwards. I've seen these "stuck" just slightly open and not only is the air restricted, but the airline will get fluids pushed back down towards the pumpstation.

 

[madscientist]

thank you again to all who posted. i have one by one changed the check valve on the air line, changed all the poly tubing, changed the hp regulator (which was leaking a little), rechecked all the lp check valves and spot free check valve, and confirmed that the air solenoid is opening properly. problem still happening. i'm calling it a night, and will stare at it some more tomorrow.

 

[jcollins]

mad, I've got to quit posting at 1:00 am in the morning! Reread your post and it now sounds like you have too much air and not enough water or chemicals.
You need three things to have good lp presentation, air, chemicals, water.
Since the problem is with all low pressure functions and all low pressure funtions use different chemicals, with too much air, let's look at the water or something that is common with all low pressure funtions.
175psi of soft water from the low pressure pump and check the scrubby pad inside the foamer tube.

 

[madscientist]

ok, so after last night's replacing poly tubing, air line check valve, and leaky high pressure unloader, my lp products looked awesome on the cars today. it was too busy for me to "touch anything", but i did try to back the air pressure down. it starts to look streaky when i go down below 85 psi, which is still way too high but better than last week's 95 psi. i can easily get 175-220 psi from the solution pump, water is zero grains, virtually every part on the face of the pump station and above it is now new. i even had a fleeting hope of a new discovery....lp solution bleeding back into my weep lines????? nope. that check valve was holding fine. could it possibly be my hp check valve up above? if it's too hard to open maybe the volume of fluid is decreased? not sure if this makes sense. not sure if i make sense.

jcollins, 1 am is a great time to post...i was checking at that time for more ideas. thanks again to all who have been trying to help. i'll stare at it some more tomorrow.

 

[madscientist]

as an aside, last night between midnight and 1 am a dude showed up at the wash needing to use the phone because his truck had a belt snap. he was a little odd, and he kept leaving voicemails for people to bring him a beltand then mentioned the make and model of his truck. he was odd enough for me not to offer him a ride anywhere. when i showed up this morning his truck was still there, and a plain clothes policeman motioned me over to ask about the truck. turns out it was stolen. a minute later about 5 or 6 other police cars showed up. one of the officers went over to check out the truck and the guy was in it still asleep! that's remarkable because it's not only loud due to car wash noise but it was about 80 degrees by that time and he had the windows up. he must have been sleeping something off. multiple police cars and a dude being hauled off in cuffs is great on a busy saturday morning.

 

[lag]

Mad . any check valve , after the LP check valves , on the overhead manifold will cause the chemical to streak if bad. Make sure the scrubby is not wedged to one side of the foamer. There is a nipple with a small piece of metal welded in to it to keep the scrubby from getting pushed into a check valve. Is it in place?

I removed the scrubby from our foamers,but we use chemicals that are fairly foamy with out it.

I made a tool once ... it was a 1/4 T ,gage in one port. poly fittings in the other 2 ,and a piece of 6 inch poly attached to one of the poly fittings. I used it to check the air after the solenoid going to the overhead manifold. I was able to check it against the air gage for the LP functions.

I still believe your problem is related to check valves attached to the foamer.

I know all this has been posted before,but it may be time to take a good look at all the components for the overhead manifold, when you can shut down. Good luck

 

[madscientist]

thanks lag,

tomorrow is supposed to be rainy (and cold). i'll dismantle the tree first thing. that tool is a great idea.

 

[raisetheprice]

MAD,

I just replaced one of my HP checks with the new I-Check Magnum. So far so good. We run hot water as well, this check valve has a max temp of 180 degrees so I dialed back the hot water heater just to be safe. I need to see how hot the water actually is, then make the adjustment back up. One tip, you must use teflon tape and teflon paste. I used both and it still leaks just a drop or two periodically. The trick might be to let the past cure before washing. Cars were waiting so I had to let it go immediately. I was told the prototype lasted 4 years without failure (and never did fail) but was replaced with a production unit to measure reliability of the ones being sold.

 

[madscientist]

thanks again to everyone who responded. i have a virtually new machine now, and the main problem was the scrunchie inside the foamer tube. the (not so) funny part is that this was the first thing i tried 3 weeks ago. i just stuffed the new one in too hard and caused a blockage. this time i cut it in half, cleaned it out and the put it back. i've got my air to overhead down to 50 psi! i think it helps having the non-leaky hp unloader, the new poly tubing, and a few of the other new things as well. once again, i really appreciate having everybody's input. my stress level just went down significantly.

 

[raisetheprice]

Now go enjoy a beverage of your choice since it's not washing any cars today (rain). Gremlin...squashed. Nice job.

 

[pitzerwm]

I want to thank all of the participants on the Forum, YOU are what makes this industry and the Forum itself the best on the planet. Happy New Year to all.