Chemical Containment - A New City Code

[ScottV]

Just putting the finishing touches on a major refurb of an old wash and the City Codes guy comes along and mentions that we need to have a containment system in our mechanical room that will hold the volume of the largest size barel of chemcials that we have on hand.

Have any of you ever run into this problem and how did you address it? We have a large floor drain in our mechanical room that ties directly into the City's sanitary sewer and I'm puzzled as to why this is not sufficient.

Any help or ideas would be great. I can't imagine wrestling 55gal drums up over some containment curb.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Just putting the finishing touches on a major refurb of an old wash and the City Codes guy comes along and mentions that we need to have a containment system in our mechanical room that will hold the volume of the largest size barel of chemcials that we have on hand.

Have any of you ever run into this problem and how did you address it? We have a large floor drain in our mechanical room that ties directly into the City's sanitary sewer and I'm puzzled as to why this is not sufficient.

Any help or ideas would be great. I can't imagine wrestling 55gal drums up over some containment curb.

Just ran into this recently with an inspector and our Hydraulic oil. Do a search on the net. There are some that are basicaly a soft material like a pillow around the edges and you can wheel a drum over it. The hydraulic Oil is on a tip up type holder so I was able to tip it over the curb.

I am guessing they don't want concentrated chemical going into the sanitary sewer. How about stubbing up the floor drain a few inches so that the whole floor is containment. Of course if there is an easy way to remove the stub for wash down purposes

 

[Red Baron]

Just another example of runaway regulation and worthless government workers trying to justify their existance.

 

[Chiefs]

So he wants your to have a containment system that will hold 55 gallons. Does he know that you are likely to have upwards of 6-8 (or more) 55 gallon drums on hand at any given time? have you seen the requirement in the code itself? You can always file an appeal. Its the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In all our 50 years of washing, I've never had a 55 gallon drum or 30 gallon drum or 5 gallon pail leak.

Can he give you any guidance on what he has seen others do to fulfill the code? I suppose you could build some kind on stand and then invest in a pallet jack to bring the drums up to the level of the stand. But with several drums on the stand at any given time, it would have to be ruggedly constructed to support the weight.

 

[Waxman]

1. ask for a copy of the regulation and read it for yourself so you can make your own determination about its relevance to your situation.

2. fill in the floor drain if possible.

 

[soapy]

Sounds similar to a regulation they have for waste oil stored above ground. you have to have an outside container that will hold the volume of the tank in case it is ruptured. we used a round water trough from a ranch store to satisfy the regulators. Lifting a 55 gallon drum into the tank would be a problem. A plastic water tank that is slightly large in diameter would work also.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Why not just use 5 gal hypers until you pass inspection. You could cut a poly 55 in half and use that as your containment for the hypers.

 

[MEP001]

We ran into a similar problem building a wash, but I think the city inspector didn't fully understand the regulations. He made us plug the floor drain so a chemical spill would pool in the equipment room or run out under the front door.

 

[PaulLovesJamie]

I dont have any chemicals in my equip room, just soap.

 

[rph9168]

There is a containment system available that looks a little like the stand idea someone mentioned. I don't think they cost a lot but they take up more room than the footprint of a 55 gallon drum. Actually many areas have this type of law but I don't remember ever seeing it for car wash products. Most of the ones I have heard of usually apply to solvents or other flammable or environmentally hazardous products. I would check that rule the inspector was trying to enforce to see what class of chemicals it applies to and check with your local chemical supplier to see if they can help.

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is a containment system available that looks a little like the stand idea someone mentioned. I don't think they cost a lot but they take up more room than the footprint of a 55 gallon drum. Actually many areas have this type of law but I don't remember ever seeing it for car wash products. Most of the ones I have heard of usually apply to solvents or other flammable or environmentally hazardous products. I would check that rule the inspector was trying to enforce to see what class of chemicals it applies to and check with your local chemical supplier to see if they can help.

I for one like using 5 gallon pails when possible. Easy to move around and easy to provide spill containment for. There are lots of solutions including containment pallets with ramps to wheel drums onto the pallet.

http://store.interstateproducts.com...ae4aab6242a44171.e3eSc3aTah0Le34Pa38Ta38MbNz0

http://www.seton.com/eagle-modular-spill-platform-system-js42.html

 

[ScottV]

Thanks guys. This is what happens when little men are given big badges! I have to have the floor drain because it was sized to handle the discharge from the RPZ backflow preventer that they made me install. I'm going to ask for a copy of the code and read it myself. I know of garages that have their oil drums sitting on containment grates, but this is soap and is going down the drain anyways!

I'll update this post with new information after I speak with the codes guy again.

 

[Red Baron]

This is what happens when little men are given big badges!

You got that right!

I had a boiler inspector come by the car wash just after being given his new inspector's certificate. The guy was a major doofus, doing his best to find something to bust me on. Kinda like when as a 9 year old you got that shiny new official Red Rider carbine action 200-shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time for Christmas -- no sparrow or alley cat in the neighborhood was safe.

The inspector was going to find some violation to jusity the enormous amount of authority now vested in him by the State of Texas. Ended up having to install a new 1 million btu popoff.

 

[ScottV]

Never thought I would be reporting good news! I spoke with the Codes guy and after he explained all about secondary containment and its purpose he mentioned that we can't allow soaps to dump into the storm sewer. I mentioned to him that the floor drain in my equipment room is tied into the sanitary sewer per city codes, he got real quiet, paused for a while, and said "I guess we don't have a problem then!"

Another bullet dodged!

 

[pitzerwm]

One approach that I used with inspectors, when they would say that something was wrong, I'd get all concerned like I was going to cause the collapse of the world, and start suggesting all kinds of things that I should do to correct this great danger, building a wall 10' tall all around the wash and other dumb ass things, that were almost realistic. Pretty soon he'd realize how stupid his demand was and would say "well if you could just do this, I'll be happy"

 

[Axxlrod]

Never thought I would be reporting good news! I spoke with the Codes guy and after he explained all about secondary containment and its purpose he mentioned that we can't allow soaps to dump into the storm sewer. I mentioned to him that the floor drain in my equipment room is tied into the sanitary sewer per city codes, he got real quiet, paused for a while, and said "I guess we don't have a problem then!"

Another bullet dodged!

So originally he thought the drain in your equip room floor ties into the storm sewer? He's not so bright I guess.

 

[rghyska]

Been there and done it. Lets just say that when I built my wash I had to add about 40K worth of extras to comply. All of my drains underground had to be dual contained (IE pipe within a pipe). The funny thing is from my main collection pit to the city sewer did not need to be dual contained.

Anyway, I ran into the same thing with containing 55 gal drums. If the code is right. Just switch to 5gal jugs Place them in some cheap plastic tubs for the inspection then after a couple of months. Switch back to the 55gal drums.

I did this 8 years ago and it not been a problem since. Just leave the 5 gal jugs in for awhile in case the pull a suprise inspection during the first couple of months.

 

[Red Baron]

Been there and done it. Lets just say that when I built my wash I had to add about 40K worth of extras to comply. All of my drains underground had to be dual contained (IE pipe within a pipe). The funny thing is from my main collection pit to the city sewer did not need to be dual contained.

Anyway, I ran into the same thing with containing 55 gal drums. If the code is right. Just switch to 5gal jugs Place them in some cheap plastic tubs for the inspection then after a couple of months. Switch back to the 55gal drums.

I did this 8 years ago and it not been a problem since. Just leave the 5 gal jugs in for awhile in case the pull a suprise inspection during the first couple of months.

Not that I'm the kind of guy that would attempt to thwart an inspector, but I wonder what would happen if you avoided any "surprise inspections?"

Sir, I can't let you enter my equipment room just now as I spilled a cup of Dawn Dish Detergent on the floor and I cannot take the chance of you slipping and injuring yourself. Please call to make an appointment.

 

[Reds]

When I was getting approvals the sewer board wanted containment for bulk chemicals. I told them that I would never have bigger than 5gal jugs because i didn't have room to store big drums and they dropped the issue. Regarding inspectors - 99% of them were the kids that everybody threw spit balls at in school. Now they are getting even. When I was in the fast food business I had to have fire doors over the serving counter if I had no sprinkler system. An inspector tried to shut us down because a piece of regular printer paper was taped to the wall and stuck out over the track (fire door is simply a steel roll up door). I had my lawyer send him a letter stating that he was welcome to inspect but needed an appointment ahead of time so that the lawyer could be there along with the owner. He never came back. He just wanted to throw his weight around if he could get away with it. I should have given the manager a straw and some spit balls and let him deal with it.