battery backup for floor heat circ pump~?

[SHINEY2]

anyone ever do a battery backup in case the power goes out during a blizzard - so the bays dont freeze. im in north dacrazy - i mean dakota and my wash is 1 town over from my home...is there something i could do to protect against total freeze up during outages? i have a non electric gas heater hanging in the equipment room that has no blower...just so in case of outage my equipment room hopefully wont freeze up, but in the bays if my circulation pump could be pwered by a back up then all would be good ~~~right???

pwered by a couple marine type batteries maybe with a trickle charger attached so they are charged when the time comes?

perhaps if not a battery backup there is some small easy to tuck away generator type thingy?

 

[cantbreak80]

If it’s during blizzards, you’ll likely have no business. So why worry about the bay floors? Plumbing yes...but that should be handled with a good weep system that requires no power

A battery backup will require many batteries and a good pure sine wave inverter to provide quality 120v to the floor heat pump.

For reference, my RV is equipped with 4 golf car batteries and a Prosine 2000 watt inverter/charger. The system will power my TV/Satellite/DVD all day. But, run the microwave for 10 minutes and the battery bank will discharge to 50% charge. A coffee pot or hair dryer hits them pretty hard, too. Fully charged, they barely make it through a 35 degree night with the furnace thermostat set at 65 degrees.

A portable 2000watt inverter-style generator will easily power the floor heat pump. Sam’s Club has Champion generators that are long running, quiet, relatively inexpensive, and highly regarded by the RV crowd. Otherwise, there’s Honda and Yamaha.

However, automatic start is not part of this equation.

 

[bigleo48]

I suppose you are concerned with your floors cracking? If your slab is thick enough, it would take some time to get there, maybe days...but it should not crack if you use 50% poly glycol. So no worries.

I like to know if I lose power, so I have all three phase monitored by my alarm company.

But you can also get a UPS something like this one http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4267970&CatId=234

It can alert you via phone/email or MMS if you have a power failure. Then you can get the generator if you need to power something.

 

[Reds]

I use a sensaphone to monitor my bay temps and it also calls me if the power goes out. My equipment room has gas heaters with a standing pilot. Ditto my weep heaters. But my boiler (raypak) has an electrical pilot ignitor so in an outage I am out of luck. I think a standby generator, which is what I run at home, with a transfer switch installed, would be the answer for the pump and also any electronic pilot ignitor. One problem with the sensaphone is that sometimes I lose only one leg of my 3phase power, and the sensaphone only calls me if the power is out on whichever leg it is wired into.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If there is no power you can't wash any cars anyway. Since the floor heat should have a glycol mix, that shouldn' freeze. If you have a blizzard, likely you won't have business until the lot is plowed and the plows can also clear the bays of any snow with the floor heat coming on to take care of any residue when the power returns. I see it as a non problem. However, the weep should have some NO solenoid type system so electrical failure will open the seep solenoid to help prevent any freeze ups of the lines during the outage.

 

[bigleo48]

If there is no power you can't wash any cars anyway. Since the floor heat should have a glycol mix, that shouldn' freeze. If you have a blizzard, likely you won't have business until the lot is plowed and the plows can also clear the bays of any snow with the floor heat coming on to take care of any residue when the power returns. I see it as a non problem. However, the weep should have some NO solenoid type system so electrical failure will open the seep solenoid to help prevent any freeze ups of the lines during the outage.

Just so there is no confusion, Earl means a NO as Normally Open solenoid(s) on the weep system.

 

[Greg Pack]

I understand why many of you say this is overkill since you are out of business anyway with the power out. But I'll play along... I'm in the south so I have no experience with floor heat. What kind of flow/pressure is needed through a system? If the OP gives a pump number I can help give you some calcs.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I understand why many of you say this is overkill since you are out of business anyway with the power out. But I'll play along... I'm in the south so I have no experience with floor heat. What kind of flow/pressure is needed through a system? If the OP gives a pump number I can help give you some calcs.

Wouldn't you need boiler specifics also if the boiler needed electricity to run?

I think more important than floor heat during a power outage is what was addressed on a post a couple of years ago for some sort of heat in the equipment room to keep those pipes and equipment from freezing and keep trough heat going so when the power comes on you can get going right away.

 

[Greg Pack]

Well, Earl, you're right, I should inquire about the electronic control, but It shouldn't take much to fire the boiler. The majority of the power will be used by the pump to move the solution through the plumbing.

I also have a trace prosine like cantbreak80 and it would basically function like a big UPS. Grid Power could be "channeled" through it. If the grid goes down the trace inverter would start to utilize battery power almost instantly. It's much like a big UPS. Not cheap and of questionable payback because you are out of business, but it can be done.

 

[2Biz]

My 350K BTU Floor Heat boiler has a 220v circulation pump that consumes 9.6 amps. I would think you would need a VERY large battery backup and converter to do any good. A backup generator would work better as mentioned earlier. If installed correctly, you could power the whole ER..

 

[Ric]

If there is no power you can't wash any cars anyway. Since the floor heat should have a glycol mix, that shouldn' freeze. If you have a blizzard, likely you won't have business until the lot is plowed and the plows can also clear the bays of any snow with the floor heat coming on to take care of any residue when the power returns. I see it as a non problem. However, the weep should have some NO solenoid type system so electrical failure will open the seep solenoid to help prevent any freeze ups of the lines during the outage.

I'm thinking this also. Antifreeze solution in the floor heat so it won't freeze. No power so you aren't washing cars. I have a standing pilot infrared heater in my equipment room which requires no power. My weep is operated via a normally open solenoid. I'd just wait it out until the power comes back. If power outages were happening so frequently that I needed back up power I would be contacting my electric company...that ain't right.

 

[SHINEY2]

THANKS GUYS! This is only my second winter owning my wash and i was perhaps just stressed over nothing. Sounds like i have my bases covered in this area.

Hate to admit it, but I was unaware that the weep is open in power outage...I was thinking the weep was off with out power as well. I obviously have allot more to learn. I appreciate all your help.

 

[MEP001]

...I was unaware that the weep is open in power outage...

This is true ONLY if a normally open solenoid is used as your weep control.

 

[Earl Weiss]

This is true ONLY if a normally open solenoid is used as your weep control.

I inherited a system (brand unknown but setup was mostly D&S) that used normaly closed solenoid for the weep mizer type unit.

However, the supply for these solenoids was also T'd to a normaly closed solenoid the outlet of which met up with the normaly open outlet line. The N.O. was tied into the power supply with a switch in between normaly set to on providing power. That way if the power failed the weep unit would not open it's solenoids but the N.O. would open and supply water.

When the old weep unit failed, I contacted weepmizer people and they were kind enough to set up a unit for a nominal charge that worked with NC solenoids. That charge was less than buying new solenoids.

 

[Greg Pack]

This is true ONLY if a normally open solenoid is used as your weep control.

Yep, one hard lesson for me in 1993 was what happens when the power goes out and you have a normally closed weep solenoid. Took me three days to thaw everything out and fix the busted copper.