Automatic + Winter = Doors?!?
- Thread starter Bubbles Galore
- Start date
Jeff_L
Well-known member
I did it up until last winter. It sucks. Constantly spending money on keeping things from freezing, ice everywhere, etc.. My building faces to the North, so I had all that wind whipping through. So a year ago I put a door on the entrance (North end) to one of the autos (not enough $$ to do both at the time), and noticed a big difference in utilities to keep it from freezing. Not to mention I didn't have ice everywhere in that bay. Putting a door on my other auto within the next month.
The only con I see is people thinking your auto is closed when the door is down. Even with signs, some people don't read them. Just have to train your customers that when it's cold, the door goes down, but you're still open.
The only con I see is people thinking your auto is closed when the door is down. Even with signs, some people don't read them. Just have to train your customers that when it's cold, the door goes down, but you're still open.
robert roman
Bob Roman
Waxman
Super Moderator
An automatic cannot, IMO, be run w/out doors in cold climates.
Since opening I've had doors that cycle up and down with the wash.
They are a pain sometimes; I added heat to the tracks and upgraded the entry side to a NEMA 4 operator. As a new operator/owner, I didn't have a clue as to this aspect of equipment and I suffered as a result. I assumed my builder included waterproof operators but they were standard units instead. My bad.
If you install doors, do your homework and get the best you can afford. Skimping on operators will cause you headaches when you need them least; on the busy days!
Since opening I've had doors that cycle up and down with the wash.
They are a pain sometimes; I added heat to the tracks and upgraded the entry side to a NEMA 4 operator. As a new operator/owner, I didn't have a clue as to this aspect of equipment and I suffered as a result. I assumed my builder included waterproof operators but they were standard units instead. My bad.
If you install doors, do your homework and get the best you can afford. Skimping on operators will cause you headaches when you need them least; on the busy days!
my2cents
Member
Reds
Member
Doors present their own problems - freezing to the ground and opening/closing slowly when it is bitter cold ( 5 degrees or less ). But I cannot imaging operating in a cold climate without them. Install heat under the door, plus an air dryer on the operator line. A threshold to keep door off of wet floor a little bit. Winterguard Wet covered with big foam pipe insulation is also a help on the cylinders. Also keep a torpedo heater handy for thawing out frozen doors. You may also need convection heaters inside the bay. Air operators should be plumbed so you can shut off the air while inside the bay and open a drain line to drain water out of the bottom of the cylinders. Get big decals put on the door that say "Doors open automatically". Good luck
ToFarGone20
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It can be done....i suppose.
Tell me, have you seen the show "Deadliest Catch"? At certain times they have to go around and knock all the ice off the boats...you will get a good idea of how they feel...and won't be making the $$$ they do.
We went 1 winter here in Iowa without doors and that was it....at minimum put a door on the exit. It will help stop the venturi effect (or whatever its called) and lessen ice build up.
Tell me, have you seen the show "Deadliest Catch"? At certain times they have to go around and knock all the ice off the boats...you will get a good idea of how they feel...and won't be making the $$$ they do.
We went 1 winter here in Iowa without doors and that was it....at minimum put a door on the exit. It will help stop the venturi effect (or whatever its called) and lessen ice build up.
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
lighthousecarwash
Active member
Give me an email address. I'll show you some pictures of what my bay looked like last winter without doors. I just ordered my doors last week and I am going to insulate the attic above that bay. I am hoping that I will not weep a drip of water in that bay this winter. Believe me, if you melt and pound ice all winter, you will kick yourself the entire time for not just putting in the doors.
Lighthouse.
Lighthouse.
Red Baron
Active member
There is an IBA in this area with doors and you can sense by the repetitive signage on the doors that he has trouble with people thinking the bay is closed.
I would not consider doors, except maybe a simple overhead door to be able to work in the bay when it's cold. They would keep me awake at night. My customers have enough of a hard time managing to get between the rails and staged on the tredle - adding another task to the process would be courting disaster.
We're in West Texas and while we get ice, snow, and 12 degrees sometimes, the average high in the dead of winter is mid-50's and it's just not a big enough issue to warrant doors.
I would not consider doors, except maybe a simple overhead door to be able to work in the bay when it's cold. They would keep me awake at night. My customers have enough of a hard time managing to get between the rails and staged on the tredle - adding another task to the process would be courting disaster.
We're in West Texas and while we get ice, snow, and 12 degrees sometimes, the average high in the dead of winter is mid-50's and it's just not a big enough issue to warrant doors.
robert roman
Bob Roman
I live in Florida. Virtually all car wash facilities here are without automatic doors.
I see them every day. A wash-bay full of automated moving machinery and wet soapy floor left wide open to the general public, 24/7.
Real scenario 1 - Mom & grandmom are vacuuming car. Their toddler somehow manages to slip their attention and wanders over to IBA. Child slips or is knocked down by boom and is critically injured to head. Case settled out of court.
Real scenario 2 - Sales rep enters wash-bay while car wash is operating and falls through pit grading, seriously injures leg. Case settled out of court.
An automatic door looks like cheap insurance to me.
I see them every day. A wash-bay full of automated moving machinery and wet soapy floor left wide open to the general public, 24/7.
Real scenario 1 - Mom & grandmom are vacuuming car. Their toddler somehow manages to slip their attention and wanders over to IBA. Child slips or is knocked down by boom and is critically injured to head. Case settled out of court.
Real scenario 2 - Sales rep enters wash-bay while car wash is operating and falls through pit grading, seriously injures leg. Case settled out of court.
An automatic door looks like cheap insurance to me.
ted mcmeekin
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We have inside electric operators, heated floor, heated track, and insulated overhead. Our doors are a little slower than others and much much less expensive. We do have occaisional problems but manageable. The best thing we did was plumb
all selfserve wand holders to recycle tank along with RO reject and gutters. So our SS weep costs is only a little energy to pump from that tank.
all selfserve wand holders to recycle tank along with RO reject and gutters. So our SS weep costs is only a little energy to pump from that tank.
Red Baron
Active member
Robert, with all due respect, any operator with enough sense to own a car wash can envision the risks involved. Spelling them out is more helpful to some greaseball attorney perusing car wash websites to build a case than it is to car wash owners.
I could just as easily make the case for the danger...naaaa, never mind.
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
With the Ryko's all you need is an overhead radiant heater and doors. Most sites heat the entrance and exit skirts with in ground heat (the electric seems to have problems but I have seen them last 10 years). Most of the sites here have overhead doors with air operators. We have many sites with Ryko bi-fold doors. The benefit to a good air operated bi-fold is if someone hits the door there is normally no damage and it only takes a few minutes to put it back on track. The other option is the roll up doors that fix themselves when hit by a car.
Earl Weiss
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You really think attorneys need his help?
robert roman
Bob Roman
"any operator with enough sense to own a car wash can envision the risks involved"
Really?
What other retail business can you point out to me that has a facility full of moving machinery that any person can literally walk into, 24/7?
Even the most mundane amusement park rides are cordoned off with fences to prevent unintended access by customers and there are attendants to assist and watch over people and operate the machinery.
I once owned a wash in Florida. The bay had no roll-up doors. 3' stem wall was the only thing separating the car wash system from the sidewalk running along side the building. Even today, I would not hesitate to brick up the sidewall and install access doors.
That's my opinion. Of course, I'm not an attorney and no longer own or operate a car wash, I'm just a consultant.
Really?
What other retail business can you point out to me that has a facility full of moving machinery that any person can literally walk into, 24/7?
Even the most mundane amusement park rides are cordoned off with fences to prevent unintended access by customers and there are attendants to assist and watch over people and operate the machinery.
I once owned a wash in Florida. The bay had no roll-up doors. 3' stem wall was the only thing separating the car wash system from the sidewalk running along side the building. Even today, I would not hesitate to brick up the sidewall and install access doors.
That's my opinion. Of course, I'm not an attorney and no longer own or operate a car wash, I'm just a consultant.
my2cents
Member
It goes without saying (common sense) that if you are in a warm climate, the doors are not as much of an issue. The question came from Michigan and customers in that region are accustom to doors on bays - especially automatics - so they pretty much understand that the wash is open when doors are down. There are 5 months of money making days that support doors, the remainder of the year is paying the bills. Warmer climates (Texas, although only periodically cold) tend to even out monthly revenue to some degree. Do not own an automatic in cold climates without doors, floor heat and in some cases ventilation to remove fog that can occur during certain conditions.