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What lights for my awning?

I.B. Washincars

I.B. Washincars

Car Washer Emeritus
I have a wash with about 150' of backlit awning. It is 17 years old and needs to be reskinned. I think I will have new lighting installed while it is down. It now has 110W, 8 ft, high output, fluorescent fixtures. They are two bulb and about 30 of them. What's the best thing to go back with?

I'm in Ky and we flirt with 0 degree temps every now and then, but seldom colder.
 
t-8 8 foot with 4 4foot lamps. We just did this and it turned out well. Do you mind sharing cost info on the awning. I haven't done that yet. Mine is 8 years old and the awnings are shot.
 
8 foot total fixture length 2 lamps on each side and lamps are 8/8 of an inch. Home Depot has them for about 60 dollars.
 
You might want to look at the LED strip lights that Kleenrite sells. The cost however will be around $6000. I am still concerned with LED lights however. At the WCA show I talked to a couple of people who had retrofitted some washes when LEDS first came out and they are starting to see failures well before the 50,000 hours that the LEDs are supposed to last. I would go with T5 bulbs myself. I put some in over 3 years ago in some SS bays and have not seen one failure yet.
 
I.B. Washincars said:
I have a wash with about 150' of backlit awning. It is 17 years old and needs to be reskinned. I think I will have new lighting installed while it is down. It now has 110W, 8 ft, high output, fluorescent fixtures. They are two bulb and about 30 of them. What's the best thing to go back with?

I'm in Ky and we flirt with 0 degree temps every now and then, but seldom colder.
Click to expand...
T5 fluorescents are significantly brighter per watt - you could probably get away with single-bulb fixtures along the length which would cut the electricity used in half. I'd try a couple first to be sure.

What I used for comparison:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/4672/FHO-096CW.html

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/4702/FHO-54T5840P.html
 
I rehabbed a wash last year and used the T-5s and then rehabbed Scottsdale MH with the Crossover LEDs this year. I am very happy with the light by both, much cleaner, whiter than either HO Florescent or metal halide, cost was very good on T-5s for the installation per fixture and pretty good ROI on electric saving. Reason I went with Crossovers was drop in replacement for current fixtures, cost analysis shows about a 2 year payback and I plan on owning it that long, and I think eventually we will all have to move to LEDs. I would certainly recommend either of those options though.
 
I use the 96” 110 watt H.O bulbs and have been pretty happy with them over the years. I wonder how I’d save if I converted the fixtures over to 4 - 54 watt T-5 bubs, I use 2 – 110 watt H.O bulbs per fixture, with total of 9 fixtures
 
Randy said:
I use the 96” 110 watt H.O bulbs and have been pretty happy with them over the years. I wonder how I’d save if I converted the fixtures over to 4 - 54 watt T-5 bubs, I use 2 – 110 watt H.O bulbs per fixture, with total of 9 fixtures
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is rhetorical or not 2x110 per fixture = 220 and 4x54 - 216. Savings of 4 watts or about 2%. But, per link above The 4 T5s give 1530 lumens vs 9500 for the T12s
 
Randy, If you replace all of your lights with T5s in 8 foot 4 bulb configuration you will end up with 25% more lumens of light than what you have now. Another factor is the CRI index of a T5 light compared to a T 12. A T5 CRI is 85 while a T12 is only 62. That means that given the same lumens of light T5 light is recognized by the human eye as being 35% more light. With a 8 foot T5 4 bulb fixture you would be almost double the amount of light you currently have. I would go with a 4 foot 2 bulb T5 fixture to replace your 8 foot T12s. The 4 foot T5 fixtures are under $100 compared to $220 or so for a 8 foot T5. I am sure you would be happy with the light a 4 T5 4 foot fixtures per bay. I have done this in a couple of bays and am happy with the results. I have found some american made LED 100 watt fixtures for $120. Once I get them and test them out I will let you know how they work out. I would guess that replacing your T12s with a 4 foot T5 fixture your pay off will be around 1 year. If my new LEDs work out the pay back time on them are only 6 months compared to a metal Halide of equivelent lumens.
 
Earl Weiss said:
I don't know if this is rhetorical or not 2x110 per fixture = 220 and 4x54 - 216. Savings of 4 watts or about 2%. But, per link above The 4 T5s give 1530 lumens vs 9500 for the T12s
Click to expand...

OOOPs my Bad Per link above 4 ft T5 = 4750 Lumens x 4 = 19,000
8 ft T12 = 7650 Lumens x 2 - 15,300
 
Earl Weiss said:
OOOPs my Bad Per link above 4 ft T5 = 4750 Lumens x 4 = 19,000
8 ft T12 = 7650 Lumens x 2 - 15,300
Click to expand...
Because of the better color rendering the t-8 lamps ..if you install the same footage will look just as bright or brighter than the HO lamps. The t-5 would be a further increase in light but you would forego some significant savings. At-5 ballast is $60 and a t-8 ballast is $12. T-5 lamps are also much more expensive. In my opinion you should stay with as common a product as possible because of the potential for a future retrofit. (4 foot t-8 is what's in most office buildings in the country.)
 
IB
I replaced the HO canopy lights In two of my Campbellsville locations earlier this year with T8's. I replaced the 330 Scottsdales In the bays with T5's at the same time. 2 with motion sensors and two without for each bay. Bought them from Smart Lighting Solutions after someone from the forum recommended them. Great company and great lights. Come on down and take a look when you have a chance.

Doug P.
 
wash4me said:
Because of the better color rendering the t-8 lamps ..if you install the same footage will look just as bright or brighter than the HO lamps. The t-5 would be a further increase in light but you would forego some significant savings. At-5 ballast is $60 and a t-8 ballast is $12. T-5 lamps are also much more expensive. In my opinion you should stay with as common a product as possible because of the potential for a future retrofit. (4 foot t-8 is what's in most office buildings in the country.)
Click to expand...
Color rendering isn't dependent of the type of light, it's made by the color temperature of the bulb that comes anywhere from 2900K to 6500K.

T5 and T5 HO are quite different in the energy they use - standard T5 are 32 watts, T5 HO are 54. Either way though, they produce the same amount of light per watt.

T5 bulbs are three times more expensive, but they last three times as long.

T5 are so much more efficient that many office buildings are removing the 4-bulb fixtures and replacing them with 3-bulb fixtures to get the same light from one less bulb.
 
MEP, I look back through the posts you have made and I get a chance to learn from your experience. That's what's great about the forum!
 
I.B. Washincars said:
I have a wash with about 150' of backlit awning. It is 17 years old and needs to be reskinned. I think I will have new lighting installed while it is down. It now has 110W, 8 ft, high output, fluorescent fixtures. They are two bulb and about 30 of them. What's the best thing to go back with?

I'm in Ky and we flirt with 0 degree temps every now and then, but seldom colder.
Click to expand...

I would just go buy some t8 fixtures and replace just a couple while your others lights are still operational. If you're happy with the amount of light then great. If you are not happy put in the t5 fixtures. My guess is you'll be happy.
 
T5 4' Vapor proof lights from KB lighting in Philadelphia around $75 per fixture with bulbs. I rehabbed my touchfree and have not had any issues.
 
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