New Construction Single Automatic

[CuriousDel]

Couple of questions hopefully you guys can help me out.

I am looking to add a single in-bay automatic, at our c-store/gas. It would be new construction, land is already owned. I have had a chance to try PDQ's new laserwash, as well as the old laserwash 4000. I was quite satisifed with the old 4000 and would take my car through before I switched to strictly handwashing my car.

I am looking around $400,000 if I want to get this constructed. To myself, and this only based on speculation it does seem a little high. Adding, that there is no land purchase, but mainly improvements, construction, equipment.

On equipment I was quoted around $200,000 for the new laserwash system. It is a very nice system (for someone that is illiterate in this field) but did not seem to dry as well as I though with the new dry as you rinse feature. Now, I do run into the problem of neighborhood noise pollution so maybe a stand-alone drying system would be out of the question. I will have to wait and see.

How much should I be investing in a system such as the new PDQ laserwash? What are other comparable systems that are made with quality.

Anyone else own or operate PDQ systems? How much should the building and construction cost be for a single bay automatic?


Thanks guys, def. apperciate the help!

 

[lag]

How much should I be investing in a system such as the new PDQ laserwash? What are other comparable systems that are made with quality

Take a good look at the Washworld equipment , if you like the inverted L style automatic wash. It would be a good machine to compare with. Be sure to ask other operators in your area about the distributor also.

 

[mac]

200K for an automatic seems on the high side, which is PDQ's M.O. Look at the things in the quote. You probably have an entry system, air compressor, water pretreatment and possibly reclaim, and a spot free unit. That stuff should run around 30 to 40K. That leaves 160 to 170K for the auto. There are a lot of good automatics out there for 100K complete, including the Magic Wand that I sell. I would shop around and use the 60 to 70K to take the wife on vacation.

 

[JonKush]

Couple of questions hopefully you guys can help me out.

I am looking to add a single in-bay automatic, at our c-store/gas. It would be new construction, land is already owned. I have had a chance to try PDQ's new laserwash, as well as the old laserwash 4000. I was quite satisifed with the old 4000 and would take my car through before I switched to strictly handwashing my car.

I am looking around $400,000 if I want to get this constructed. To myself, and this only based on speculation it does seem a little high. Adding, that there is no land purchase, but mainly improvements, construction, equipment.

On equipment I was quoted around $200,000 for the new laserwash system. It is a very nice system (for someone that is illiterate in this field) but did not seem to dry as well as I though with the new dry as you rinse feature. Now, I do run into the problem of neighborhood noise pollution so maybe a stand-alone drying system would be out of the question. I will have to wait and see.

How much should I be investing in a system such as the new PDQ laserwash? What are other comparable systems that are made with quality.

Anyone else own or operate PDQ systems? How much should the building and construction cost be for a single bay automatic?


Thanks guys, def. apperciate the help!

We just purchased a Istobal M12 thats both Touch an Touch-Free and we are adding a building on to our building. Your prices are too high. Do more research. Your quote must have something in there thats real expensive. Even with a teller, Ro system and the Reclaim it seems very high.

 

[Waxman]

You need to have everything in the quote itemized and then get a few quotes to compare.

A new IBA project has many aspects. Just the 'dirt work' alone can vary in price in the 10's of thousands. Trust me; you will want to save $ wherever you can.

Choose an IBA with plenty of distributor support. Choose one that is fast yet washes well. Don't get locked into a soap distributor right away as it will take time to decide which is best for you (service, price quality).

There are many efficiencies that you should implement immediately. RO reject reclaim, cfl lighting and on-demand hot water are a few.

This is a big project but to me the cost seems high. I bet I could do it for $275k.

 

[CuriousDel]

200K for an automatic seems on the high side, which is PDQ's M.O. Look at the things in the quote. You probably have an entry system, air compressor, water pretreatment and possibly reclaim, and a spot free unit. That stuff should run around 30 to 40K. That leaves 160 to 170K for the auto. There are a lot of good automatics out there for 100K complete, including the Magic Wand that I sell. I would shop around and use the 60 to 70K to take the wife on vacation.

100k complete! Thats half of the price of what I was quoted from PDQ. I guess there is no water reclaim because it is coming from a well. I am going to look into other systems, because I highly doubt if they are asking 200-230k for the new laserwash system including doors etc they will be willing to sell it complete for anything less than 150k. I will get an itemized estimate and get some more input. Thanks also is your site www.magicwandcarwash.com?

 

[robert roman]

There seems to be two schools of thought with respect to carwash at a gasoline site with the former being the more prevalent.

1) We are a gas/c-store company that offers a carwash service
2) We are a gas/c-store company that also operates a professional carwash business

If you are of the latter mind, I would forget about equipment for the moment and concentrate on fundamentals such as what is it going to take to maximize the property as a carwash site.

Otherwise, I would build/buy the cheapest building and in-bay system I could and then sit back and be happy with what decides to come through in the door.

How cheap can you go? Figure $75K to $150K for site improvements, regardless. You can still build a 1,200 SF block garage without doors for less than $100K. You can stuff the building with an ultra-cheap clone or a refurbished in-bay for less than $100K. Quite frankly, it is very difficult to build anything decent today for less than $400K. Of course, if you choose this approach, don’t expect anything above average in terms of results.

 

[CuriousDel]

You need to have everything in the quote itemized and then get a few quotes to compare.

A new IBA project has many aspects. Just the 'dirt work' alone can vary in price in the 10's of thousands. Trust me; you will want to save $ wherever you can.

Choose an IBA with plenty of distributor support. Choose one that is fast yet washes well. Don't get locked into a soap distributor right away as it will take time to decide which is best for you (service, price quality).

There are many efficiencies that you should implement immediately. RO reject reclaim, cfl lighting and on-demand hot water are a few.

This is a big project but to me the cost seems high. I bet I could do it for $275k.

I do think it is beneficial in this stage before I start and construct the carwash to not invest a whole lot of money into it, that is the main reason if I can save 50-60k, that is that much less I have to make back on the return. They are saying when it's all said and done it will be around 400k. Around 170k for the construction, 230k for the equipment including doors, dryers, etc. What I don't understand is the dryer is integreted in the new laserwash system so how could that be additional cost. Unless I am getting another stand alone in addition to that. Well, before I go off purely speculation I will wait to get the itemized quote in my hand. Determine the things that I do need and don't need. I apperciate your guy's help and I will give you an update this coming week. Thanks again

 

[MEP001]

The integrated dryer is an option, that's why it's an extra cost.

 

[CuriousDel]

There seems to be two schools of thought with respect to carwash at a gasoline site with the former being the more prevalent.

1) We are a gas/c-store company that offers a carwash service
2) We are a gas/c-store company that also operates a professional carwash business

If you are of the latter mind, I would forget about equipment for the moment and concentrate on fundamentals such as what is it going to take to maximize the property as a carwash site.

Otherwise, I would build/buy the cheapest building and in-bay system I could and then sit back and be happy with what decides to come through in the door.

How cheap can you go? Figure $75K to $150K for site improvements, regardless. You can still build a 1,200 SF block garage without doors for less than $100K. You can stuff the building with an ultra-cheap clone or a refurbished in-bay for less than $100K. Quite frankly, it is very difficult to build anything decent today for less than $400K. Of course, if you choose this approach, don’t expect anything above average in terms of results.

You are absolutely right. As much as I do want to go with the latter and be a professional car wash service, I don't think that is something that I would be able to achieve with the space, layout of the gas station and the manpower. I would like to provide the convenience of getting the guest's car washed and having it be effective, provide deals that go hand in hand with the gasoline sales, inside retail sales. And having repeat customers at the same time. As far as going with the refurbished system and constructing something to be very cost effective, again with the manpower I don't want them having to shut it down and serviced every other day of the week, while losing whatever income I do generate.

 

[Waxman]

In my experience, C-store carwashes are the worst. I am sure there are exceptions, but in my experience, the clerks are way too quick to shut down the wash.

In that vein, you'll want a workhorse IBA with a proven track record. Get one and your maintenance woes will be minimal.

Touchfree or Friction? Due diligence should answer that.

If on a well, plan for a holding tank to satisfy peak demand.

 

[steve01]

Del, I run two IBA's at my station, and for the amount of money the your project costs, whether you go "cost-effective" or not, you have to make the committment to make it a profitable, stand-alone business. It would take a LOT of fuel and inside sales to make up for a $300K - $400 investment without some serious help from the car wash.

I think you should listen to Robert and concentrate on the fundamentals to maximize your potential as a professional carwash site. Very few c-store operators think of themselves as a "carwash that sells gas and snacks", but that's what you have to do make the investment worthwhile. Otherwise the whole project could turn into a disappointment to you and your guests.

 

[CuriousDel]

Steve-

If you don't mind, how much gas volume are you doing at your station? Did you put in both IBA's new construction? I am willing to make the investment so both the carwash and the station go hand and hand. You are def. right it would not be worth it to just build it and not market it as a professional carwash, the revenue being generated from it would not be great, it would only increase the value of the property. Which from my standpoint is a complete fail. What system did you go with up there in Minnesota? Marketing the car wash when the guest is filling up on the payment screen at the pump, offering deals with certain gal. fill ups, running specials I think would great to increase traffic through the wash but how effective will it really be?

 

[Waxman]

I think you need to backtrack somewhat here.

Maybe your market could support a mini tunnel.

Maybe your traffic count could support something more than an IBA.

Marketing the carwash w/gas & c store is certainly appealing and a must, but do not hang all your cash flow projections upon this cross-marketing approach.

If you build a truly needed and effective carwash in ther proper market and location and manage it well and closely then it can support the costs, as long as you create a business plan w/3 years pro formas and a best case worst case hopeful average net income #.

The key to success lies in your due diligence. You are on the right path but should consider the help of a carwash consultant at this juncture.

 

[steve01]

We do about 80K gallons per month. We sell washes between a 1/28 to 1/56 per gallon ratio (depending on time of year). We offer $1.00 off washes with 8 gal or more fuel purchases, 2 for 1 washes with fuel on Sundays, and other various programs to help drive volume.

We run one touchfree and one friction (both Ryko's) to eliminate the "I don't like THAT kind of wash" objections from customers, and use Ryko Thrustpro dryers, which work great in colder weather to help eliminate freezing doors shut on cars. I use good chemicals, and keep the machines operating correctly and efficiently, even though sometimes it hurts to repair a machine in a down month. You have to give your customers the best possible wash each and every time, and be concerned about their complaints.

I thought I read that 81% of carwash customers return to the same place if they receive a good perceived value, which can be a powerful tool for c-stores. Plus, your hours of operation are generally longer then most stand-alone car wash facilities, which gives you the opportunity to gain customers while they are closed provided you do a great job.

Waxman mentioned "c-store carwashes are the worst", which is true in most cases, and that is the perception you have to strive to overcome. If you think and act like a carwash operator, a carwash can be a really effective profit center for your business and separate you from the rest of the c-stores.

 

[CuriousDel]

I think you need to backtrack somewhat here.

Maybe your market could support a mini tunnel.

Maybe your traffic count could support something more than an IBA.

Marketing the carwash w/gas & c store is certainly appealing and a must, but do not hang all your cash flow projections upon this cross-marketing approach.

If you build a truly needed and effective carwash in ther proper market and location and manage it well and closely then it can support the costs, as long as you create a business plan w/3 years pro formas and a best case worst case hopeful average net income #.

The key to success lies in your due diligence. You are on the right path but should consider the help of a carwash consultant at this juncture.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but is that not your profession? A carwash consultant? I do need to get a business plan prepared, the guy at the bank said he could get me one for $300-400.

 

[CuriousDel]

Steve-

It sounds like you have a great setup at your station. You have the ability to offer many different options such as two different washes. Our property is very limited to space so it is either one or the other. There is also the added stipulation that there cannot be noise pollution because there are many residences in this area, so we will need an on-board drying system such as the new laserwash features. The gas station does around 140-150k gallons, inside sales aren't as high to mirror the gas volume. The conv. store itself is not very spacious but we have tons of repeat customers from the neighborhood and also the neighboring town right next door to us.

The gas station is not 24 hours, but it is located on a busy street that runs through 6 towns. I have not done any research of demographics and competition I know there is not alot of comp. in the immediate area <4 miles.

I agree the car wash can be very beneficial if it properly ran and operated. I have been to gas stations where they have wonderful car washes that are always doing great with IBA such as the older laserwash 4000's.

To my knowledge, so far they said the water will be from a Well. What are the pro's and con's of having your water come from a well? Should I look into adding a holding tank as well, the only downside I see to this, it can be over-kill but it would only be a downside if It really takes off and I did not invest into a holding tank when it was the right time.

 

[steve01]

IMO if you have good traffic and not a lot of competition, Waxman had a great point with the mini-tunnel. You should be able to cycle 40-50 cars per hour with a good mini-tunnel set up, minimize labor, and knock 'em dead. A laserwash would only allow for 15-20 cars per hour at best.

140K-150K gallons means good customer counts (unless you are heavy into deisel/large trucks), and you need a carwash that is going to rock. On-board dryers will slow you down, so that would be an obstacle to overcome. I'm thinking you should definately do some more research on how to get the most bang for your buck (like researching mini-tunnels), and continue to study this website. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Waxman]

I'm an owner/operator of a little tiny 2/1 carwash and detail shop. I am not a carwash consultant.

I think you should do your own business plan, formulate your own cash flow projections, etc. This is the best way to really dig into the project and become intimately involved with all the aspects of the project (and there are many!).

Your business plan should not only be a means to get financing but also a roadmap of where you want to take the business in 1,2, 3 years. These are your critical years and simply handing the task over to someone for "$300-400" is a mistake, I think.

Talk privately to a few consultants (you can find them here and maybe a few have pm'd you already) and get their input. They are ones whose opinions have weight.

I'm flattered you thought I was a consultant; I just talk like I know what's up.

 

[mac]

CuriousDel, something you mentioned caught my eye. I think you said that no water reclaim was included in your bid. Check with the building department that will issue the permits. Many require a reclaim system in any new wash. Just one of those little $40,000 items you don't want to be surprised with.