My wife and I looked at putting on a full time person to just sell our chemicals in our distribution business. It was discouraging. When we looked at the real cost of hiring a full time person and putting a truck/van on the road, we would have to sell three times the ammount we do now just to reach the point where we net the same dollar ammount. Looked at it in every way possible and it always came out the same. And as you know, chemical sales are probably the most competitive part of this. You can't hardly swing a dead cat without hitting a chemical salesman. Makes me smile when I see my competitors trucks running around. It's what you keep at the end of the month that counts.
Why you don't always make more money by selling more.
- Thread starter mac
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Jeff_L
Well-known member
There is always pros and cons and you're doing the right thing by modeling it out to find your break even point. The one thing you didn't mention is what you could do to generate more revenue once you freed up the time currently taken up by selling and delivering chemicals today.
RykoPro
Technician/Manager
When I moved from Ryko to our present company, now a Ryko distributor, there were two chemical sales guys left over from Belanger. Both were worthless and now one is with the competition. I think you and your wife are making the right decision unless you can find a really good one. I have the techs deliver chemicals when on their way to service calls. I would hope sales would increase if someone was selling full time, but the idiots we had before barely kept customers, let alone found new ones.
A lot depends on the chemical sales rep you get. A good one will not only increase sales and the customer base but will also be a good source for equipment leads. A bad one will cost more than they are worth.
Red Baron
Active member
I bought a roofing company from my dad in '86 and grew it 300% each year for 3 years straight....then wondered why. I wasn't making any more profit to speak of, but I was working night and day and taking on a lot more liability.
Sales
Nothing wrong with staying within your means when you are in business.
When you expand, there isn't always an instant payback. If the market were large enough to profitably support 10 trucks and 10 salespeople, it may not be so at some number less than that.
I'd be curious about how the others are staying in business with "all those trucks going by" .....
Nothing wrong with staying within your means when you are in business.
When you expand, there isn't always an instant payback. If the market were large enough to profitably support 10 trucks and 10 salespeople, it may not be so at some number less than that.
I'd be curious about how the others are staying in business with "all those trucks going by" .....
pitzerwm
Active member
IMO rapid growth is more dangerous than no growth. And that old saying "Be careful what you wish for".
Red Baron
Active member
It's a quality of life dilemma, and I still struggle to find balance with that, still. My son has told me many times: "Dad, I know a lot of people whose parents make a lot less than you, and they go on cruises and international vacations, and you've never been on a cruise or been out of the Continental US."
Been in the race for so long I think I forgot why I'm racing at times.
Bill that's a good question for you. You put in a lot of years, achieved success, then got out with your sanity intact. Do you wish you'd gotten out sooner? What are your biggest regrets in the car wash business, in general terms?
Been in the race for so long I think I forgot why I'm racing at times.
Bill that's a good question for you. You put in a lot of years, achieved success, then got out with your sanity intact. Do you wish you'd gotten out sooner? What are your biggest regrets in the car wash business, in general terms?
Waxman
Super Moderator
Agree with Bill. My business went from a detail shop in a rented location to a 2/1 carwash on land I bought, then a new detail shop on the same land and ditching the rented space.
The transition was necessary. It isn't easy. Several things needed/still need to gel and fall into place and I work very hard at making things go, cash flow, etc. Sometimes you need to grow and expand and sometimes you don't. But expanding and growing almost always means working harder and or smarter!
The transition was necessary. It isn't easy. Several things needed/still need to gel and fall into place and I work very hard at making things go, cash flow, etc. Sometimes you need to grow and expand and sometimes you don't. But expanding and growing almost always means working harder and or smarter!
It's interesting alright. It's tough to find a real good salesman. Chances are if he's that good, he's already in business. Walmart seems to manage growth pretty well, but for smaller companies there's a fine line between profit and loss.
Danny
Member
robert roman
Bob Roman
With the number of automobile dealerships that have closed this year and the number that are forecasted to close next year, you might want to consider recruiting from the growing pool of unemployed salespersons and customer service advisors. Many of these people actually understand the car-care business and they are familar with making a living from sales commissions rather than hourly wages or salaries.
bigleo48
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Those large discretionary purchases were likely made on credit! You really don't know until you see their statements at the end of the month.
I have an acquaintance who is a VP for a food distribution company. He always drove a big SUV, wore suits, vacations every six months and talked big. One day he dropped his pay stub in the parking lot. I didn't even know it was his until I opened it. $56k a year for a VP! It's all show!
BigLeo
P
Patrick H. Crowe
Guest
I can offer two situations where I dealt with growth.
1. The Painting Teachers. For ten years, but only 4 months a year, I was a painting contractor. The first year I worked for wages, by the hour, for another teacher and learned all I could. His flaws were obvious, good painter, poor communicator, unable to figure out how to bid accurately.
The second year I went on my own and began hiring others. I figured out how to bid jobs but made some serious mistakes. Still, as a teacher I knew which other teachers were hard workers and took instructions without becoming defensive, let alone hostile. Same for students.
Soon I had 6, then 10, then 12 employees. In all my years I only had to "let one go". I piad wages most condidered generous, the crew was satisfied. I slowly spent more and more time bidding and promoting. My best slogan: Have your house painted by people with Master's degrees. I quicly saw that if I could make $1 an hour more than each employee was paid, I was in clover (at least by teacher standards). Slow growth, satisfied employees, unique promotion and satisfied customers. No big deal.
2. Car washes. Went form one to 8 or 9 - - I owned one twice. I started very, very small. My first five washes were on leased land because I have extremely limited capital - - I was a teacher making less money than most cab drivers.
I quickly figured out what washes were worth and how to determine that. I looked at every wash which came on the market (still do) and never paid more than a wash was worth. I learned that run down, beat up washes were glorious opportunities, did many.
continued
1. The Painting Teachers. For ten years, but only 4 months a year, I was a painting contractor. The first year I worked for wages, by the hour, for another teacher and learned all I could. His flaws were obvious, good painter, poor communicator, unable to figure out how to bid accurately.
The second year I went on my own and began hiring others. I figured out how to bid jobs but made some serious mistakes. Still, as a teacher I knew which other teachers were hard workers and took instructions without becoming defensive, let alone hostile. Same for students.
Soon I had 6, then 10, then 12 employees. In all my years I only had to "let one go". I piad wages most condidered generous, the crew was satisfied. I slowly spent more and more time bidding and promoting. My best slogan: Have your house painted by people with Master's degrees. I quicly saw that if I could make $1 an hour more than each employee was paid, I was in clover (at least by teacher standards). Slow growth, satisfied employees, unique promotion and satisfied customers. No big deal.
2. Car washes. Went form one to 8 or 9 - - I owned one twice. I started very, very small. My first five washes were on leased land because I have extremely limited capital - - I was a teacher making less money than most cab drivers.
I quickly figured out what washes were worth and how to determine that. I looked at every wash which came on the market (still do) and never paid more than a wash was worth. I learned that run down, beat up washes were glorious opportunities, did many.
continued
P
Patrick H. Crowe
Guest
I'll end this with a report on a conversation I had with Bob Clements (sp?). Bob founded Wonger Wash, a large chain, and when we spoke he was grossing over 11 million a year and I was at about a half million. Here's what we learned from one another.
I used a far smaller percentage of gross to pay operational expenses - - his were almost double mine - - percentage wize.
He told me there were few economies of scale in car washing, i.e. if you own ten washes in a town do you get a cut on utilities? No! Can't you buy soap cheaper? Of course, in larger quantities. Now you need warehouse space, trucks, employees and so on.
I'll try and jump you to the bottm line. Bob made many times what I made. He had subordinates galore so he never answered an alarm call. He also was far more able than I was to keep hundreds of ball in the air simultaneously - - I call thet an extrea 20 to 50 I. Q. points. It's why Obama beat McCain so badly and why he will clean up the Bush mess - - as vein as it sounds there simply is no substitue for BRAINS.
My bottom line is this: Expand? Be sure to determine HOW MUCH you know before you attempt it. Be sure to make a prudent financial judgement about your capital. The be sure about how many balls in the air you can ahndle - - you might even take an I. Q. test. Just my opinion.
Patrick H. Crowe
I used a far smaller percentage of gross to pay operational expenses - - his were almost double mine - - percentage wize.
He told me there were few economies of scale in car washing, i.e. if you own ten washes in a town do you get a cut on utilities? No! Can't you buy soap cheaper? Of course, in larger quantities. Now you need warehouse space, trucks, employees and so on.
I'll try and jump you to the bottm line. Bob made many times what I made. He had subordinates galore so he never answered an alarm call. He also was far more able than I was to keep hundreds of ball in the air simultaneously - - I call thet an extrea 20 to 50 I. Q. points. It's why Obama beat McCain so badly and why he will clean up the Bush mess - - as vein as it sounds there simply is no substitue for BRAINS.
My bottom line is this: Expand? Be sure to determine HOW MUCH you know before you attempt it. Be sure to make a prudent financial judgement about your capital. The be sure about how many balls in the air you can ahndle - - you might even take an I. Q. test. Just my opinion.
Patrick H. Crowe
Dean Taylor
Dean Taylor, CATEC.com
Mac, remember the old addage "We're losing money but we'll make it up in volume."
pitzerwm
Active member
Just for the record, Bob Clements had Wonder Washes and Lube. I consider him a good friend and really smart, but crap happened and he had to go BK. Always be careful what you wish for. He is still alive and well, but out of the car wash biz.
I wouldn't disagree that brains are a good thing, but so is common sense and I've met a few brains that could get you to the moon, but couldn't screw in a light bulb. A decent mix of both is the best option IMO.
As for Obama fixing all of our ills, I'm happy to see that he picked some smart middle of the road guys, that have told him forget about raising taxes any time soon. We may survive this yet.
I wouldn't disagree that brains are a good thing, but so is common sense and I've met a few brains that could get you to the moon, but couldn't screw in a light bulb. A decent mix of both is the best option IMO.
As for Obama fixing all of our ills, I'm happy to see that he picked some smart middle of the road guys, that have told him forget about raising taxes any time soon. We may survive this yet.
P
Patrick H. Crowe
Guest
Bill:
It seems to me you often imply that being at or near genius level intelligence is very apt to mean the person lacks "common sense". Right? That's simply not the case, i.e there is no statistically valid evidence to demonstrate that high I. Q. spells low common sense. It is true that some folks have much more common sense than others and I'm all in favor of common sense. Still and abundance of brains does not suggest a lack of common sense.
I'm not trying to suggest in any way that Bush or McCain is dumb. Not at all. Their ability to fly jets almost certainly proves they are well above average in intelligence. Still, there is an extremely large difference between above average and 20, 30, or 40 additional I. Q. points. Here are some of the differences and how I came to learn them.
For more than 20 years I taught in a college prep high school. The average I. Q. was 123. There was very little chance that a potential student with an average I. Q. of 100 would ever be admitted because he simply could not keep up, do the work - - it would be like a kid 4' 0" tall being a basketball star - - not 100% impossible but extremely unlikely.
I taught the gifted section of 3rd year math. These guys had to be very bright and willing to work; intellectually curious with strong memories. I had access to all their entrance records so I could look up their I. Q's. Here's my point.
20, 30, 40 I. Q. points is a world of difference. These guys usually have exceptional memories. Their attention spans were very long compared to students with lower scores. They looked for and took on challenges. They were quite entertaining. Common sense? Yes, for sure. So be it.
Obama did not get to be president of the Harvard Law review without BRAINS; Summers did not get to be president of Harvard without BRAINS - - so it is with most of Obama's selections and thank God for it.
Patrick H. Crowe
It seems to me you often imply that being at or near genius level intelligence is very apt to mean the person lacks "common sense". Right? That's simply not the case, i.e there is no statistically valid evidence to demonstrate that high I. Q. spells low common sense. It is true that some folks have much more common sense than others and I'm all in favor of common sense. Still and abundance of brains does not suggest a lack of common sense.
I'm not trying to suggest in any way that Bush or McCain is dumb. Not at all. Their ability to fly jets almost certainly proves they are well above average in intelligence. Still, there is an extremely large difference between above average and 20, 30, or 40 additional I. Q. points. Here are some of the differences and how I came to learn them.
For more than 20 years I taught in a college prep high school. The average I. Q. was 123. There was very little chance that a potential student with an average I. Q. of 100 would ever be admitted because he simply could not keep up, do the work - - it would be like a kid 4' 0" tall being a basketball star - - not 100% impossible but extremely unlikely.
I taught the gifted section of 3rd year math. These guys had to be very bright and willing to work; intellectually curious with strong memories. I had access to all their entrance records so I could look up their I. Q's. Here's my point.
20, 30, 40 I. Q. points is a world of difference. These guys usually have exceptional memories. Their attention spans were very long compared to students with lower scores. They looked for and took on challenges. They were quite entertaining. Common sense? Yes, for sure. So be it.
Obama did not get to be president of the Harvard Law review without BRAINS; Summers did not get to be president of Harvard without BRAINS - - so it is with most of Obama's selections and thank God for it.
Patrick H. Crowe
P
Patrick H. Crowe
Guest
Bill:
I did not know Wonder Wash & Lube went belly up. Could you get Bob to share what did it? How long ago? What's he doing now?
I remember him well. He once gave a presentation at a convention whenre I was doing one and he gave more facts and data than almost anyone else.
So many other presentations were just a few cute stories and showed almost no prep. Clements gave one that was all meant and no fat. I was authentic and memorable and based on real first hand experience in the tremches. Not some sales rep supposed to be talking on soap chemistry and really giving a thinly veiled effort at why his brand was best.
I'LL GIVE LONG ODDS BOB IS BACK ON HIS FEET AND WOULD LIKE TO READ A POSTING FROM HIM.
Patrick H. Crowe
I did not know Wonder Wash & Lube went belly up. Could you get Bob to share what did it? How long ago? What's he doing now?
I remember him well. He once gave a presentation at a convention whenre I was doing one and he gave more facts and data than almost anyone else.
So many other presentations were just a few cute stories and showed almost no prep. Clements gave one that was all meant and no fat. I was authentic and memorable and based on real first hand experience in the tremches. Not some sales rep supposed to be talking on soap chemistry and really giving a thinly veiled effort at why his brand was best.
I'LL GIVE LONG ODDS BOB IS BACK ON HIS FEET AND WOULD LIKE TO READ A POSTING FROM HIM.
Patrick H. Crowe
ted mcmeekin
Fast and Clean
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As CEO of an Engineering firm, I had about 3000 employees mostly engineers. A percentage of my PHD engineers were slow to mentally take the root mean square of all they learned to find eloquent solutions to tough problems (I am not equating High IQ to education level but believe there is some loose correlation on how far some go). On the other hand I heard many brillant solutions from our less educated. Some, more than others, just seem more adept at integrating lots of info quickly to find solutions and IMO it is not necessarily related to IQ. We focused our hiring on smart people with practical experience (where possible) and if they scratched their way through school with limited financial support I knew we had a winner. Veterans with good training came to us years ahead of most there peers. You can't teach brilliant problem solving only some techniques--the rest is burried in the gray matter.
Ted
Ted
Ted
Ted
