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phred113

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Read the book, End of Faith by Sam Harris. The answer to all of this is to drop the illusion of religion, gods, and move on to reality and away from mysticism. Christians have the rationality to abandon the inane commands in the Bible, but the Muslims are so primitive that they literally interpret the Koran. The sooner the Christians (Western societies) drop religion and hold these ideas in contempt, the quicker the World can avoid disaster at the hands of Muslims (or any fundamentalists). This is the gist of his book.
 

Ben's Car Wash

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You mean like the Romans tried to eliminate the "pig" christians by feeding them to lions, bears and gladiators? Or the Conquestidors, the Spanish Inqusition, the crusades or the Eroupeans settelers to the Americas theating other cultures and "savages" as less than human and needing to be exterminated?

fundementalism of ANY RELIGION IS WHAT IT IS... be that Christian, Hebrew of Muslim. The begining of the bombings in the 1960s in the Middle east began at the King David Hotel by a Radical Jewish group, not Hammas or the PLO (they didn't exist). Whabbism is fairly new... as is this islamic-fundimental threat.

Funny this is... as a kid I always though that American Idians "scalped" the white people... that's how it was portraed on TV and in the movies. But that not what happened. Eroupens offed bounties on Indians and the proof was like a pelt from a beaver... the scalp. In return (Indian have little hair and the hiar is very sacred) they began scalping.

Maybe you should read more history, more lititure and more religious studies before you conclude that Islam is what you said it is. Fact is Islam has a whole chapter (called a SURA) on Christ who the claim (as we do in the new testament) that Christ was born from the Virgin Mary. The speak of John the baptist, Zaccariah and when he heard God in the Temple tell him that he would have a son (John the baptist). The speak of all most all of the same stories that are in both the Torrah & the Bible. If you read ALL THREE BOOKS; the Torrah, the Koran and the Bible you will find so many simularities that you will see less differances. Your being told what to think... to hate. same as in 1937 and dehumanizing people calling them rats & vermin until it was easy to exterminate them.

90,000 will die from flu in the US this year, 700,000+ from heart disease, 20,000 from falls in homes, 72,000 from lung cancer, 36,000 from breast cancer, 14,000 from DUI's 11,000 kids from drownings, 7000 kids from gun shots...... we killed hundreds of thoudsand of people in Iraq alone in this war.... are we make more fundimentalist or less?
 

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BTW,, I disagree that Christians can abondon mystic things and become "rational". The Us has the highest rate of "Christian Identity" in the modern world. Yet we are lossing ground in Science. Globally or test score drop. Recent studies published showed that more people believe in the "unseen" then in fact. I will find that and link it if you don't beleive me. The point is no one is better.... we have to come to know eachother and understand why we are reacting this way. If I recall.... we have a lot of radical Christian here in the US; Eric Roudolph, Ted Kazinksi, Those nuts in Kansas City with the Fags and the military funneral $hit.... There plenty of them here too. And they too are preparing to die for their causes.
 

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You understand and don't....

You make my point with examples of unacceptable, irrational behavior in the name of some 'belief'. All of these are unacceptable, anti-social behavior. There is also the matter of degree. The grave side protesters are not behaving acceptably, yet legally, but there are few of 'them' and there are relatively many of 'us'. There are REALLY a lot of Muslims. When a group of that size decides to behave in a certain way, then they become a force difficult to counter. The theory explains the Catholic's anti-birth control and advocation of more little catholics for centuries.

Well behaving, cooperating groups can multiply and prosper along with the rest of society. It is those that behave counter to social norms that must be called out and corrected or removed (not firing squads or eugenics).

I do not care if you choose to believe in something I know to be fiction and similar references to the same fiction (Bible, Koran, Talmud, Torah,....). Your behavior is civil. As you have correctly pointed out, I have an issue with fundamentalists.
 

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Christians in the world seem to have abandoned the strict 'teachings' and tempered them with pragmatic choices on how to live in a civil society. All I ask is that the Muslims do the same or get out.

If we decide that tolerance is what we need, this group will never assimilate. The Irish and Italians were treated horribly, but today they are just part of the group. The cruelty some felt is the natural force of a society needing compliance. You can calm down I am not talking about compliance in the context of China or that sort.

The US is a country founded on reason and natural laws. These have always guided our culture and laws. Irrational, human-hating behavior cannot be allowed as it is truly suicide for everyone. Most of the human-hating, irrational teachings from the Bible/Torah are ignored and the result is a civil society. Instead, the teachings followed by most are the positive, life affirming ones. This is what Muslims need to do, or go somewhere that allows them to kill and control each other.

You can continue to be offended and defend people you do not know, or read this post and think, and understand. I have not advocated killing, sterilizing, or harming Muslims in any way. They should leave if they cannot follow OUR social rules and agree to assimilate in the public square. In their homes they can do as they wish - it is their home after all.
 

pitzerwm

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When Doug (Ben's dad) informed me that he condoned the demonstrators at solder's funerals, his credibility and opinions ceased to be of any value.
 

rph9168

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I really doubt most of what Doug says but I especially noticed his comment about killing "hundred of thousands" of Iraqi's. Sounds like he has been listening to Rosie O'Donnell and her group. The total number to date is not even in the "hundreds of thousands" and the way the war is going now it is highly unlikely to go much higher. The interesting thing is that when things were hot a heavy over there, the evening news led with war stories. Now there is hardly a mention and many so called newscasts have no war stories.

There are fringe groups in almost every religion that exists that have extremist views. I believe the problem most have with the Muslims in general is that so little is said or done to refute or reject the actions of the terrorists by mainstream Muslims. The other is their extreme intolerance of other religions and their screwy rules of behavior. God forbid that a missionary try to convert a Muslim or someone misuse the name of Mohammed or soil a Koran. I recently read where a professor in the Middle East was ordered to receive 180 lashes for having coffee with a female in public. It doesn't get much crazier than that. Lucky for him he didn't hug or kiss her. God knows what the penalty for that is.
 

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First I know many Muslim.... I work side by side with them every day on a professional level.... I watch them SAVE LIVES EVERY DAY. So your wrong there.

Second, this Nation is founded on Religious freedom and liberty to be or practice whatever religion (or no religion) without a "test" or fear, or discrimination (which is what you are suggesting). This IS NOT A NEW CONFLICT, it has been seen well beforwe the US ever existed.... perhaps you heard of Spain, the Basque, the Moor wars, the "black moors".

And as far as RPH "doubts" .... he needs to read. All most Every Nation accepts the death toll in Iraq is well about 400,000 (the lancet 3 years ago reported or 700,000). These were published medical studies... the same studies certified in the past to prove genocide by the US in the Hague against others... only now we doubt it? How convienant.

We are creating more of them. And by suggesting the we "expell" Muslims because your view of them doesn't suit you if even more inflamatory. You forget that some of you poster here on the ACF and many of the Readers are Muslim!
 

pitzerwm

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Sorry Doug, but I have the email, that you sent when I accidentally sent to you pictures of the Muslim protest in England, with signs threating to kill any one that objected to them. You sent me a picture of the protesters here and said that they were totally right to protest because of Bush starting the war in Iraq. BUT, if you want to say that isn't what you meant, fine.

Anyone reading the European newspapers can see the problems that they are causing in Europe trying to force people to their way of thinking. Just type Muslim Protest into Google and you will get plenty of evidence that in Europe and the Middle East and Asia SOME of them are a problem.

Sure the ones here, like Catholics that practice birth control, (don't practice their religion to the inth degree) are great American citizens and contribute to the common good. They see that our way of life and liberty is better than the pure dogma that the Mullahs are preaching in other parts of the world. This thread wasn't about them.

IMO most people here could care less what you think about this thread based on your previous posts.

Also, IMO people that want to over throw our way of government should be shown the door. Actually Congress is destroying the Constitution and Bill of Rights quick enough. They don't need any help.
 

Ben's Car Wash

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Sorry Doug, but I have the email, that you sent when I accidentally sent to you pictures of the Muslim protest in England, with signs threating to kill any one that objected to them. You sent me a picture of the protesters here and said that they were totally right to protest because of Bush starting the war in Iraq. BUT, if you want to say that isn't what you meant, fine.

Anyone reading the European newspapers can see the problems that they are causing in Europe trying to force people to their way of thinking. Just type Muslim Protest into Google and you will get plenty of evidence that in Europe and the Middle East and Asia SOME of them are a problem.

Sure the ones here, like Catholics that practice birth control, are great American citizens and contribute to the common good. They see that our way of life and liberty is better than the pure dogma that the Mullahs are preaching in other parts of the world. This thread wasn't about them.

IMO most people here could care less what you think about this thread based on your previous posts.

Also, IMO people that want to over throw our way of government should be shown the door. Actually Congress is destroying the Constitution and Bill of Rights quick enough. They don't need any help.
Bill... YOU WERE CIRCULATING HATE MAIL THAT I DID NOT WELCOME.... I'm sick of getting this nonsense! My point was that we have the SAME THING HERE PROTECTED BY FREE SPEECH.... OF WHICH YOU MAKE A LIVING HERE ON THE ACF! Like it or not... agree with it or not... it is legal, protected free speech... do I agree with it... hell no. Did you see me there with a SIGN... Hell No... did you see me send their Church a check.... F NO! They're WACK JOBS! But it is legal. My point to you was that you protest that which you do not pretend to protest by a Christian group.... WHY? Because you HATE THE MUSLIMS? Let's be fair.

You got burned before when you posted awlful things about muslims and I defended them and a reader here on ACF got highly offended who was Islamic (you altered the thread afterwards). This is HATE SPEECH which is NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARENTEED nor protected and is VERY dangerous.... it goes to bad places for everyone.
 

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I don't hate anyone, until they start demanding that I conform to their beliefs. I don't hate them then, I just deal with it. Just the same if someone broke into my house, I'd assume that they weren't the Jehovah witnesses trying to convert me. Hate mail?? pictures of a public demonstration that showed their point of view? I guess pictures of people burning the flag if forwarded would be hate mail. I have nothing personally against anyone that believes whatever they believe, until they decide that I have to believe it too. The last time that you were talking about was a stupid anti-Muslim joke, which I didn't think about very well before posting, I was wrong and said so, this posts is a British man's opinion about what's going on in England, and IMO if we allow the radical people that they have allowed into England, into the US, we will have the same problems. Just like the gangs that we have now in the cities.

You might have noticed that Obama distanced himself from Farrakhan because of his radical violent views.
 

Ben's Car Wash

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The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



Now can some one tell me the name of the sword that the Marines wear? Why do they wear it? Who gave it to them? Why was it Rumored that Obama was sworn in on a Koran (clue... it was Thomas Jefferson's)... and who gave it to Thomas Jefferson?

Friend or Foe? How many wars have we fought to defend Muslims (clue...almost EVERY ONE). Maybe the Marine should drop thier swords.... it's a Muslim symbol a part of their uniform & heritage!
 

Ben's Car Wash

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try to google "the wreck of the Philadelphia", "O'Bannon" "the barbary priates". More history... less hate!
 
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Ben's Car Wash

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I don't hate anyone, until they start demanding that I conform to their beliefs. I don't hate them then, I just deal with it. Just the same if someone broke into my house, I'd assume that they weren't the Jehovah witnesses trying to convert me. Hate mail?? pictures of a public demonstration that showed their point of view? I guess pictures of people burning the flag if forwarded would be hate mail. I have nothing personally against anyone that believes whatever they believe, until they decide that I have to believe it too. The last time that you were talking about was a stupid anti-Muslim joke, which I didn't think about very well before posting, I was wrong and said so, this posts is a British man's opinion about what's going on in England, and IMO if we allow the radical people that they have allowed into England, into the US, we will have the same problems. Just like the gangs that we have now in the cities.

You might have noticed that Obama distanced himself from Farrakhan because of his radical violent views.

But Bill... it's that what the poster is saying here to Muslims..... CONFORM TO MY BELIEFS OR LEAVE THE US? Yes I know what your point was... I took offense to it... as did other who privately E-mail me (often) because they are affraid of going public here.... unlike me the FOOL who steps into a good debate because I love to debate everything!

When we stop having dialgue... we have a big problem. I get 3-5 stupid E-mails every day about "OBAMA is MUSLIM TERRORIST", "Hillary took millions from ERON", "Coke make boy stomach explode"... BS people make $hit up to scare others without knowing FACTS.

Have you ever read the KORAN? Have you ever studied Theology deeply enough to see how Abramic faiths are simular? If not, why? Was it Neche that said to "know your enemy"?
 

Ben's Car Wash

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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/barbary.htm

In 1805 Marines stormed the Barbary pirates' harbor fortress stronghold of Derna (Tripoli), commemorated in the Marine Corp Hymn invocation "To the Shores of Tripoli." First Lieutenant O'Bannon is remembered for heroism in the battle for Derna. O'Bannon's Marines were the first U.S. forces to hoist the flag over territory in the Old World. The "Mameluke" sword, carried by Marines officers today, was presented to O'Bannon in 1805.


Our finest soldiers, the US MARINES wear (used) an ISLAMIC SYMBOL given to them by an ARAB PRINCE... the oldest weapon in the US ARSENAL! FACT. Thomas Jefferson recieved his personal copy of the Koran for this Prince in appreciation for the US support to restore him (and overthrow his brother the Sulton) in Tripoli. Keith ..... damit.... whats his name... from Minnisota... representative oh well... was sworn in on Jeffersons Koran (Keith Ellison).

"When I'm officially sworn in, I will do it the same exact way as every other Congressperson-elect who was sworn in," explains the Representative from Minneapolis. "We will all stand up and in unison lift our hand and swear to uphold that Constitution, and then later, in a private ceremony, of course I'll put my hand on a book that is the basis of my faith, which is Islam, and I think that this is a beauty--this is a wonderful thing for our country because Jewish members will put their hands on the Torah. Mormon members will put their hand on the Book of Mormon. Catholic members will put their hand on the book of their choice--and members that don't want to put their hand on any book are also fully free to do that. That's the American way.... I think the diversity of our country is a great strength. It's a good thing that we have people from all faiths and all cultures to come here."



http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=153689
 
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